Is London living cost affordable?

milliebear00001

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I'm acutely aware that I may be becoming somewhat shrill and boring on this subject, but it is close to my heart as I get seriously annoyed by those that assume people choosing to live and work in London are impaired in some way. I happen to LOVE living here. I grew up in a dreary semi-rural area with rubbish public transport, limited jobs and the same old-same old generic High St shops plus out of town leisure centre. It's left me with a real horror of English suburbs and provincial towns.

The reason I don't live somewhere cheaper like Sutton is that I much prefer to live in leafy Zone 3 where I have the options of overland trains to Waterloo every 3-5 minutes plus two Tube lines and a decent Night Bus service, where I can walk to two cinemas (one independent), plenty of shops and the green expanses of Wimbledon Common and Putney Heath. Minicabs to Gatwick or Heathrow are reasonable for early flights, and are cheaply accessible through public transport throughout the day. Living more centrally means it's easier to meet up with friends living all around town (I have noticed that those who move out to the suburbs "where you get more for your money" hardly ever socialise any more). There is a spontanaeity about living centrally; I can meet mates for drinks after work anywhere in town at a moment's notice without worrying about missing the last train home. I can "pop into" Oxford St. I can wander into the West End to see if there are any cheapo last minute tickets, see a show, and be back home within 45 mins.

I'll shut up about it now, but just wanted to reiterate that London is a chunting great place to live if you choose to embrace it.

I am assuming you are young (ish?) and without kids!? I was you once upon a time - I loved the five years I spent in London in my 20s - galleries, theatre, bars, restaurants etc etc. Just wouldn't want to bring up my family there (nor could afford to!)

milliebear00001

olly300 wrote: »

There are you just haven't travelled to the right bits. The majority of sporting facilities are on the outskirts.



I've walked both around Manchester and London. You have to travel out of the city both times.

In London it's actually easier to get a train out to a station to go on a walk.

I don't see how it can be easier to get a train out of London to decent walking territory, unless you live in zone 1, immediately near the correct train station. In Manchester, you can be in the Lakes in a couple of hours by train and the Peaks in half that by car or train. In London, you can spend an hour getting from zone 2 to the bloody train station - used to drive me mad!

olly300

milliebear00001 wrote: »

I don't see how it can be easier to get a train out of London to decent walking territory, unless you live in zone 1, immediately near the correct train station. In Manchester, you can be in the Lakes in a couple of hours by train and the Peaks in half that by car or train. In London, you can spend an hour getting from zone 2 to the bloody train station - used to drive me mad!

I don't and have never lived in zone 1 and had no problems.

Cleaver

milliebear00001 wrote: »

I don't see how it can be easier to get a train out of London to decent walking territory, unless you live in zone 1, immediately near the correct train station. In Manchester, you can be in the Lakes in a couple of hours by train and the Peaks in half that by car or train. In London, you can spend an hour getting from zone 2 to the bloody train station - used to drive me mad!

Can't really comment on London, but one of the things we love about our house in Manchester is that we're exactly 16 minutes from the City Centre by tram and around 12 minutes by car to lovely countryside (which we can also see from our bedroom window).

Procrastinator333

chewmylegoff wrote: »

but where you live isn't simply a time vs. money decision, is it. when i was a bit younger all i cared about was living near my friends and having decent nightlife on the doorstep so i didn't have to travel at weekends. i could have saved money by living further out but it would have been pretty dull, so i lived in clapham and paid extra.

also, whilst it may seem odd to pay so much extra to get 14 hours extra a week, it really depends how much free time you have. i have a 45 min commute and work 8am to 8pm most days.

if i worked 9-5, then i would be prepared to have a much longer commute, but given my current situation there is no way i am going to move any further away than a 45 minute commute, so i'll pay the premium to live where i am.

Clapham vs Sutton is 14 hours a month, not per week.

I went out plenty in London while working in central London, it was never a problem. Just always had a slightly longer journey than the rest.

Let me put it another way. If in your 8-8 job, you were told actually, we have some good news for you, you now only need to work 8:30 to 7:30. However on the flip side, we are deducting you £900 a month gross pay, so £11k a year (assumes you are a higher rate taxpayer). Would that seem like a good deal?

If you are earning enough that £11k of salary is worth an hour a day, fair enough, but that is not true for most and they just don't think it through.

milliebear00001

olly300 wrote: »

I don't and have never lived in zone 1 and had no problems.

Then you clearly lived on a direct route to the right train station - fine for you, but many, many people in London don't have that luxury - the problem with an extremely large city like London is the sheer amount of time to get across it. If I live in zone 2 Docklands, it's a complete !!!!!! to get to Paddington if I fancy a day trip to the Cotswolds (for example).

Smaller cities inevitably mean easier travelling to get to the centre and out again - for example, my parents live on the outskirts of East Manchester - I can be in the city centre from their front door in 20 mins by bus/10 mins by car. Only two major train stations mean I only have to travel to the centre to get a train to wherever I want to go - not to the opposite outskirt of the city.

I live in the Peak District and can be in the city centre in half an hour, train or car - no way I'd go back to the London commute I used to do - even when I was in inner London!

chewmylegoff

Procrastinator333 wrote: »

Clapham vs Sutton is 14 hours a month, not per week.

I went out plenty in London while working in central London, it was never a problem. Just always had a slightly longer journey than the rest.

Let me put it another way. If in your 8-8 job, you were told actually, we have some good news for you, you now only need to work 8:30 to 7:30. However on the flip side, we are deducting you £900 a month gross pay, so £11k a year (assumes you are a higher rate taxpayer). Would that seem like a good deal?

If you are earning enough that £11k of salary is worth an hour a day, fair enough, but that is not true for most and they just don't think it through.

as i said, it's not simply a time vs. money decision. you might be happy travelling further when you're going out at the weekend, i preferred to be 5 minutes from the places where i and all my friends went out in clapham every weekend. if everything was about how much i spent every month vs. how much i earn then you'd be right, but it isn't, otherwise everyone in london would be living in sutton. obviously other people make their decisions differently to you. i could pay less rent and live much closer to work if i wanted to - but i don't because i don't want to live somewhere horrible in docklands.

and the example of taking a pay cut to have a few more hours a month isn't a realistic scenario, if you're doing anything with any level of sophistication, you can't just pop out and find the right job with the right hours in exactly the right place, you have to take the best one you can taking into consideration lots of different factors, and then adjust your life around that, not the other way around.

Procrastinator333

chewmylegoff wrote: »

as i said, it's not simply a time vs. money decision. you might be happy travelling further when you're going out at the weekend, i preferred to be 5 minutes from the places where i and all my friends went out in clapham every weekend. if everything was about how much i spent every month vs. how much i earn then you'd be right, but it isn't, otherwise everyone in london would be living in sutton. obviously other people make their decisions differently to you. i could pay less rent and live much closer to work if i wanted to - but i don't because i don't want to live somewhere horrible in docklands.

and the example of taking a pay cut to have a few more hours a month isn't a realistic scenario, if you're doing anything with any level of sophistication, you can't just pop out and find the right job with the right hours in exactly the right place, you have to take the best one you can taking into consideration lots of different factors, and then adjust your life around that, not the other way around.

Do you not think there is a bit of a contradiction in that comment? On the one hand it isn't time vs money, but on the other you live where you do as it is 5 mins for you if you want to go out. So you are choosing time over money. Fair enough.

I just think most don't think it through. While the job example is obviously not going to happen in that way, it is a perfectly reasonable way of showing the choice available. Most just think oh, I want to live close in, so I will have to pay X, oh well. The majority of people who pay that higher rent would jump at the chance of £30 an hour after tax.

olly300

milliebear00001 wrote: »

Then you clearly lived on a direct route to the right train station - fine for you, but many, many people in London don't have that luxury - the problem with an extremely large city like London is the sheer amount of time to get across it. If I live in zone 2 Docklands, it's a complete !!!!!! to get to Paddington if I fancy a day trip to the Cotswolds (for example).

I actually plan where I lived and live as an adult all cities and towns I've lived in the UK for transport and road links.

Having been brought up in Inner London I realised as a teenager how much hassle it was to go out of London.