Is London living cost affordable?

Jowo_2

adindas wrote: »

..

I have seen on BBC they people who are receiving a huge housing benefit living in a quite posh area in London argue:
" how could you tell 9 years children that we have to move, because we can not afford the pay the rent".

Well for me it is not a legitimate argument.

Indeed, giving claimants levels of LHA to pay for rents that they cannot even part afford in employment has been a disaster which has actually polarised society and has perversely led to a situation where it is those with jobs who suffer the effects of high rent and have to modify their lifestyle, while some of those on benefits were protected from economic reality.

"It's got to an absolutely ludicrous situation where we can have anybody walk into Westminster and, providing they are entitled to housing benefit, they can find a lease with a private flat and claim for up to £2,000 a week," said Philippa Roe, a Tory Westminster councillor with responsibility for housing.

Roe points out that, in the private sector, someone would have to earn £300,000 to cover this sort of weekly expenditure.

"Even at the lower levels, say £500 a week, you have to be earning £75k a year, which is more than 96% of the population earn. It's inequitable, a complete disincentive to work and, at a time of economic austerity, economic lunacy."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/31/housing-benefit-cuts-poor

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Cleaver wrote: »

Just as an aside, it makes me wonder why more people who enjoy city lives don't live in Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Bristol etc.

I should firstly say that I love London, I think it's one of the world's best cities and I'd love to live there. But when we looked in to it we just couldn't justify the cost and the drop in living standards we'd have to have. I know Manchester fairly well, and I think that over the past decade or so the city has moved on a lot (like a lot of other cities) and feels a lot like a mini-London nowadays. The difference is that if you want a city lifestyle you can still rent a very nice, 2-bed city centre flat as central as you want for £600 a month.

I'm sure this will bring the usual 'I couldn't live in Manchester, it's a sh*thole' response, but if I had the choice of a city centre lifestyle in Manchester or London and earned £30k a year I know which I'd prefer.

It all depends how you like to spend your free time I suppose- if it's watching Sky and occasionally going to a multiplex cinema and an All Bar One, then you may as well live in any town in the UK.

Going to theatres, independent cinemas and galleries is really important to me- I know other cities have them, just not nearly as many and not nearly as good as in London. I'm also ideally placed to get to 6 racecourses really easily on public transport- again, an important hobby. Living elsewhere would feel like my social life was massively downgraded. A mate of mine has just moved from London, where her diary was always full, to Manchester and has admitted she's a bit bored.

adindas

Dear milliebear00001

Thak you for your time answering my questions.
I am living in Lancashire areas. It is quite small compare to Lpondon.
Also the accomadation and housing is still affordable.


ADINDAS

milliebear00001 wrote: »

It depends on lots of things - pasrticularly where in the North West you are living now, and what sort of property you would need to buy in order to accommodate your needs.

You would need vastly more than £3000pa London Weighting to make up the difference in cost of living though - particularly to make up for the likely large increase in housing and transport.

Cleaver

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

It all depends how you like to spend your free time I suppose- if it's watching Sky and occasionally going to a multiplex cinema and an All Bar One, then you may as well live in any town in the UK.

If you live in Manchester, or indeed a lot of other towns and cities, then you can do more than watch Sky, occasionally go to a multiplex cinema and go at an All Bar One. Underneath the 'clone town' image of many places there is often a very healthy and vibrant cultural scene.

I know you're a lovely poster my Jelly-based friend, but this type of line is why some people think London-people are a bit up their own ar*e.

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Going to theatres, independent cinemas and galleries is really important to me- I know other cities have them, just not nearly as many and not nearly as good as in London.

I guess I agree to an extent, London is second to none when it comes to that sort of thing. However, have you experienced these types of things in a place such as Manchester? This is the only city (other than London) that I can comment on as I now live here, but there seems to be enough theatres, cinemas galleries, bars, restaurants etc. to satisfy even the most ambitious cultural individual. My wife seems to spend nearly every weekend going to something or other and wishes she had more time to go to all the stuff she misses.

I would never in a million years say that Manchester is a better city than London, because I don't think it is.

But if I were the type who enjoyed city life and I had the choice between a two bed flat in central Manchester for £700 a month or a two bed flat in central London for £2,000 a month I think I know which I'd pick. With the spare cash you'd have in Manchester you could have a much better social life IMHO.

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

A mate of mine has just moved from London, where her diary was always full, to Manchester and has admitted she's a bit bored.

My humble opinion is that she's not trying hard enough.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Yes, I'm well aware that people who bang on about how great London is can be quite tiresome. Worse, IMO though, are those who live here and whine about it rather than doing something sensible like moving away if it's that bad.

I can only talk about me personally and what I like to do in my free time. I know other cities have thriving arts scenes, it's just that the West End is the best for that in the country. Can you seriously get to see as many big-name productions in Manchester? This is what's currently on here: http://www.londontheatre.co.uk/londontheatre/whatson/drama.htm Do things like Wildlife Photographer Of The Year go on tour, or is it only on at the Natural History Museum?

As I said, I go to the races a lot and from where I live in Zone 3 can easily get to several by public transport, including two of the nation's best dual-purpose tracks. The North West is surprisingly lacking in racecourses; from Manchester I'd be limited to Chester, Haydock and Aintree, which actually don't have many meetings.

Another plus for living in London is the reassuring ease with which you should be able to find another job if you need to. In a smaller town I'd always be worried about the smaller pool of potential employers (having been made redundant once this sort of fear never leaves you).

So I'm afraid you haven't sold Manchester to me!

adindas

Dear Out, Vile Jelly

If people who are currently living in North West. how much London weighting do you think we should get to maintain the same standard of living if we want to live in London ?

I have seen many employers provide London Weighting for £3500 ? I have heard most people said this is not going to be enought.


Thank You
ADINDAS

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Yes, I'm well aware that people who bang on about how great London is can be quite tiresome. Worse, IMO though, are those who live here and whine about it rather than doing something sensible like moving away if it's that bad.

I can only talk about me personally and what I like to do in my free time. I know other cities have thriving arts scenes, it's just that the West End is the best for that in the country. Can you seriously get to see as many big-name productions in Manchester? This is what's currently on here: http://www.londontheatre.co.uk/londontheatre/whatson/drama.htm Do things like Wildlife Photographer Of The Year go on tour, or is it only on at the Natural History Museum?

As I said, I go to the races a lot and from where I live in Zone 3 can easily get to several by public transport, including two of the nation's best dual-purpose tracks. The North West is surprisingly lacking in racecourses; from Manchester I'd be limited to Chester, Haydock and Aintree, which actually don't have many meetings.

Another plus for living in London is the reassuring ease with which you should be able to find another job if you need to. In a smaller town I'd always be worried about the smaller pool of potential employers (having been made redundant once this sort of fear never leaves you).

So I'm afraid you haven't sold Manchester to me!

Cleaver

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I can only talk about me personally and what I like to do in my free time. I know other cities have thriving arts scenes, it's just that the West End is the best for that in the country. Can you seriously get to see as many big-name productions in Manchester?

Before I start typing away, let's not let this get in to a Manchester vs London debate. I've lived in both and I think both are ace and, as I've already said, London is a 'better' city than Manchester. My original point was that if you compared a similar relative wage for both (maybe £30k in Manchester and £40k in London) then I think a single person in Manchester would have a better standard of social living than the same in London. But that's just my opinion.

In terms of theatres, there's so many here: the lowry, royal exchange, palace, rncm, apollo, dancehouse, greenroom, library theatre... and that's just the main ones showing mainstream stuff. There are dozens of smaller ones.

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Do things like Wildlife Photographer Of The Year go on tour, or is it only on at the Natural History Museum?

I have no idea to be honest, but my wife is a photographer and finds something to go to pretty much every week here. I know that she's sometimes gutted that stuff comes to London that doesn't come here, but I know that she visits both places to see photographic galleries and shows and actually prefers the stuff in Manchester as it has a bit more of a DIY feel to a lot of it, but that's just her preference.

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

As I said, I go to the races a lot and from where I live in Zone 3 can easily get to several by public transport, including two of the nation's best dual-purpose tracks. The North West is surprisingly lacking in racecourses; from Manchester I'd be limited to Chester, Haydock and Aintree, which actually don't have many meetings.

Can't argue with any of that!

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Another plus for living in London is the reassuring ease with which you should be able to find another job if you need to. In a smaller town I'd always be worried about the smaller pool of potential employers (having been made redundant once this sort of fear never leaves you).

My opinion would be that pretty much any city is pretty good for finding another job, but I know what you mean.

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

So I'm afraid you haven't sold Manchester to me!

Have you spent a lot of time here to decide that it doesn't appeal? I'm not really trying to 'sell' it I suppose, just my opinion that I personally feel that cities outside London offer a lot for your money if you're not too bothered about not being in London. Go back ten of fifteen years and no one would dream of relocated from, say, London to Birmingham or Manchester. But you might consider it now.

Anyway, as I said, this is a debate neither of us can win as there's no right or wrong! I just know that to live in London properly I'd want a two bed flat, I'd want outdoor space and I'd want to be zone 1 or 2. I presume this would cost me £1,500+ and I can't afford that. So I'd pick somewhere like Manchester.

StevieJ

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

As I said, I go to the races a lot and from where I live in Zone 3 can easily get to several by public transport, including two of the nation's best dual-purpose tracks. The North West is surprisingly lacking in racecourses; from Manchester I'd be limited to Chester, Haydock and Aintree, which actually don't have many meetings.
!

You are joking, I live in Chester and it seems like there is a meeting every other week in the summer :eek: I am a racing fan but NIMBY to many drunks. BTW what about the Yorkshire courses? they are not far from Manchester, oh and Bangor.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

StevieJ wrote: »

You are joking, I live in Chester and it seems like there is a meeting every other week in the summer :eek: I am a racing fan but NIMBY to many drunks. BTW what about the Yorkshire courses? they are not far from Manchester, oh and Bangor.

I think I'm just a bit spoilt by having Ascot and Sandown on my doorstep. I paid to get into the Grandstand on Derby Day this year, but to be honest it was poor value for money given the weakness of the supporting card and I'll stick to the downs in future.

It's a good question about the London weighting and whether it's worth relocating. All the jobs I've ever applied for here have stated a salary inclusive of this. It probably depends on how cheaply you're prepared to live and how important living in London is to your particular career.

ess0two

StevieJ wrote: »

You are joking, I live in Chester and it seems like there is a meeting every other week in the summer :eek: I am a racing fan but NIMBY to many drunks. BTW what about the Yorkshire courses? they are not far from Manchester, oh and Bangor.

York,gotta be the best track/facilities bar Cheltenham in UK at the mo,in terms of value for money etc.