Bulls and Bears

Percy1983

Therefore I am neither bull or bear, just born to late.

Cleaver

Percy1983 wrote: »

Therefore I am neither bull or bear, just born to late.

Again, you can be born too late, not afford to buy a house, be really p*ssed off about it yet technically still be incredibly bullish about house prices. It has nothing to do with whether you do or don't own a house or what you think should happen.

And stop moaning about being born too late, you sound like a complete defeatist. If you want something in life then get on and work for it. Blaming when you were born on not being able to achieve something is lame, you should at least give something a whirl and have some valid reasons for failing.

Percy1983

By all means I am working hard and will achieve it, I just don't see why year of birth should indicate exactly how much you should get ripped off. (later year = more ripped off)

Anyway back to the point is there a term for us which are neither bull or bear?

Radiantsoul

Percy1983 wrote: »

By all means I am working hard and will achieve it, I just don't see why year of birth should indicate exactly how much you should get ripped off. (later year = more ripped off)

Whilst being born later means house prices are higher it is also the case that wealth and incomes are higher than for previous generations.

Cleaver

Percy1983 wrote: »

I just don't see why year of birth should indicate exactly how much you should get ripped off.

Because it just does. What do you want people to say to this? Life is just unfair like that, isn't it? It's a bit like my Dad saying:

"I just don't see why year of birth should indicate why you get to travel so much. If you were born in the 50s you got to travel no where, if you were born in the 80s you get cheap flights everywhere. It's not fair."

It just is what it is. You're right, it's not fair. But as we discussed earlier in this thread, there's a multitude of factors which have meant we are where we are.

Percy1983 wrote: »

Anyway back to the point is there a term for us which are neither bull or bear?

Yes, people who want house prices to go down and people that want house prices to go up. PWWHPTGDers and PWWHPTGUers. Think they will catch on as acronyms?

Percy1983

Yes flights are cheaper but not nessesary as such, housing is.

Yes income has gone up but not in the same proportion to house prices.

Yes technology etc has got better so I have a better TV then my parents did and they had a TV and their parents didn't, I look forward to the day a child is laughing as i only had a 40" 1080p 2D TV

In that same time the need for shelter hasn't changed, I am not saying house prices shouldn't rise, but they should be rougthly inline with everything else, at what point will you agree with this? over the years the gap between earning and house prices will get bigger to at some point nobody will be able to afford anything except for the select few, as that you world you want your children/grandchildren to live in?

Cleaver

Percy1983 wrote: »

In that same time the need for shelter hasn't changed, I am not saying house prices shouldn't rise, but they should be rougthly inline with everything else, at what point will you agree with this?

What do you want me to agree with? A statement that house prices shouldn't get out of control and should be affordable to average people? Of course I'll agree with the sentiment behind that statement, I think everyone would.

Percy1983 wrote: »

over the years the gap between earning and house prices will get bigger to at some point nobody will be able to afford anything except for the select few, as that you world you want your children/grandchildren to live in?

Of course I don't want that to happen and I don't think it will happen. We've seen house prices fall and I think (hope) they'll fall again, or at least be stangnant with little ups and downs for many years.

Am I giving the impression with my posts that I want higher house prices? I haven't said that anywhere.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Percy1983 wrote: »

In that same time the need for shelter hasn't changed, I am not saying house prices shouldn't rise, but they should be rougthly inline with everything else,

People also expect a lot more house for their money nowadays.

Even in the 1970's, a significant number of houses had no indoor toilets, let alone central heating, fitted kitchens and bathrooms, or double glazing.

I bought my latest house from an old lady who bought it in 1982. When she bought it, there was no central heating, no double glazing, no fitted kitchen. There was an indoor toilet, but that had only been installed a decade or so previously.

The upgrades she did over her time in the house would cost about £30,000 in todays money. Which is somewhere around 15% of what I bought it for.

Even if you do believe that houses today are around 30% overvalued, surely even the most ardent of bears would have to admit a significant portion of that amount is down to houses today being significantly better equipped than was the case a few decades ago.

Cleaver

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Even if you do believe that houses today are around 30% overvalued, surely even the most ardent of bears would have to admit a significant portion of that amount is down to houses today being significantly better equipped than was the case a few decades ago.

I wouldn't say a significant amount. Houses don't triple in value over a decade because people added a new worktop in the kitchens and Safestyle windows.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Cleaver wrote: »

I wouldn't say a significant amount. Houses don't triple in value over a decade because people added a new worktop in the kitchens and Safestyle windows.

200K house.

30K worth of upgrades.

House is 15% more expensive than it would have been otherwise.

Houses are (according to bears) around 30% overvalued.

Half of that amount (15%) is due to upgrades.

I'd call that a significant amount.

Or to put it another way, if the house you were looking at buying was owned by a 100 yr old man who never upgraded it, so it had no central heating, no double glazing, no indoor toilet, no fitted kitchen, no shower, etc etc etc.....

How much of a discount would you be trying to negotiate from the price the neighbouring house sold for that had all those things?