first time investing via financial advisor

feesarefare

cloud_dog wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but you are missing the point.
I would ask to review the past performance over a number of timeframes of the portfolio they have suggested. If they are unable or unwilling to provide it then they wouldn't be for me.

So you would never use an IFA -as they cant provide what you would be looking for.

We live in a world where we must call on professionals, plumbers, dentists, garage mechanics, to provide services for which we are not qualified / know anything about

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Good point but unlike your dentist, plumbers etc most IFAs dont have any specific investment qualifications.

Amanita_2

DiggerUK wrote: »

blewit, it gets worse.
IFA's do not even have to hold a GCSE exam pass in Maths, Economics, Business Studies or Basic Principles of Accounts.

.

You must approve of me then Amongst the other academic qualifications I have an O level in Maths, A Level in Economics and a degree in Business Studies.

Oh and I'm even female and under 50!

Rollinghome

cloud_dog wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but you are missing the point.

And what point would that be?

If someone wants plumbing services then that is what plumbers tend to sell. But If they want financial advice that isn't what most advisers are selling. The majority are there to sell financial products for which service they are remunerated by the product provider with commission. Therein lies the difference.

Nope.

Then you should try one. You're likely to find it an enlightening and amusing experience.

And if you want to know exactly how to evaluate the work of a plumber I'd be happy to help. By it's very nature, it's less easy to evaluate financial advice.

Rollinghome

Amanita wrote: »

You must approve of me then Amongst the other academic qualifications I have an O level in Maths, A Level in Economics and a degree in Business Studies.

Oh and I'm even female and under 50!

Sounds promising Amanita. Certainly concerning that it's acceptable for IFAs to be incapable of obtaining O level maths and so many feel they're unable to reach even the new school-level vocational standards required by RDR and instead intend to find other jobs.

Providing you provide advice entirely on a genuine fee basis and aren't just a saleswoman sugging as an "adviser" remunerated on the basis of sales then you're probably someone people should consider using.

cloud_dog

feesarefare wrote: »

So you would never use an IFA -as they cant provide what you would be looking for.

The question was 'had I used an IFA'. If I felt I needed an IFA then I would find one I was comfortable with.

feesarefare wrote: »

Good point but unlike your dentist, plumbers etc most IFAs dont have any specific investment qualifications.

Well don't use them then, use the ones with qualifications. Its not rocket science.

feesarefare wrote: »

And what point would that be?

The point is that someone who requires and IFA doesn't know what they don't know. What you can do is understand how you can assist yourself in making an appropriate decision based on information obtained, whether it be an IFA, plumber, garage mechanic, etc, etc.

feesarefare wrote: »

If someone wants plumbing services then that is what plumbers tend to sell. But If they want financial advice that isn't what most advisers are selling. The majority are there to sell financial products for which service they are remunerated by the product provider with commission. Therein lies the difference.

But surely someone who goes to an IFA at least has a basic understnading of why they are going there. Surely you must accept that. Once we've got past this bit the rest is about gaining information and outting in the effort to compare (returns, costs, etc, etc).

feesarefare wrote: »

And if you want to know exactly how to evaluate the work of a plumber I'd be happy to help. By it's very nature, it's less easy to evaluate financial advice.

No the process is the same. The specifics vary.

If I had cold radiators and a plumber told me my heating system needed a pressure clean how do I know that is reasonable? How do I know the charge he proposes is reasonable? How do I know its not just sticking themostat valves?

The specifics are different the process is the same.

Rollinghome

cloud_dog wrote: »

If I felt I needed an IFA then I would find one I was comfortable with.

So you've given up the unlikely idea of being able to "review" their work. That's an advance.

cloud_dog wrote: »

The point is that someone who requires and IFA doesn't know what they don't know.

Indeed. Whereas with the plumbers I've employed I know exactly what good work should look like and what I expect.

cloud_dog wrote: »

But surely someone who goes to an IFA at least has a basic understnading of why they are going there.

Yes, they go hoping for advice. But in most cases the adviser is not remunerated for providing advice. They are paid by the product providers for selling their products.

As you aren't an IFA like Feesarefare and have never used one it's understable that you may have a rose-tinted understanding of what's involved.

cloud_dog

I feel this whole discussion is going round in circles and for whatever reason responses are being mis-quoted.

Rollinghome wrote: »

So you've given up the unlikely idea of being able to "review" their work. That's an advance.

The word 'comfortable' describes a multitude of aspects which I am not documenting becuase they might vary depending on the reason for consulting an IFA.

The bottom line is that I would need to be comfortable with the reasons for selected products, compared to others, comfortable with the past performance compared to others,comfortable with the renumeration charges, in isolation, i.e. a fee, or compared to others, and yes do I feel comfortable with the communication between us and hte level of involvement I would hopefully recieve.

Rollinghome wrote: »

Indeed. Whereas with the plumbers I've employed I know exactly what good work should look like and what I expect.

Yes, but (and its a big but) you wouldn't know what good work is. Therefore, how do you know it is good work?

Rollinghome wrote: »

Yes, they go hoping for advice. But in most cases the adviser is not remunerated for providing advice. They are paid by the product providers for selling their products.

Abaolutely but, ask a question. Let me think, off the top of my head..... hmmmmm.......

* Mr IFA, can you show me another product which has a similar past performance to the one you are recommending?

* Certainly Mr Dog, here this is the other Average Fund which has performed similar to the one selected.

* Mr IFA, what are the commissions for the first one and the average one?

* Can you explain why you selected the first one and not the average fund?

Etc, etc, etc.

Rollinghome wrote: »

As you aren't an IFA like Feesarefare and have never used one it's understable that you may have a rose-tinted understanding of what's involved.

It has nothing to do with rose tinted specs; I can assure you that I veiw very little as rose tinted.

Its all to do with, you are a client, they are providing a service, you should demand answers to questions or information, you have a responsibility to make your own decision, if you don't have what you feel you need then take action to get it, that may mean going somewhere else etc, etc.

Rollinghome

cloud_dog wrote: »

The word 'comfortable' describes a multitude of aspects which I am not documenting becuase they might vary depending on the reason for consulting an IFA.

Ah, I see. So "feeling comfortable" means other criteria that you didn't actually specify. Good, because good salesmen are adept are making prospects feel comfortable but that skill shouldn't be viewed as a measure of the quality of their advice.

Yes, but (and its a big but) you wouldn't know what good work is. Therefore, how do you know it is good work?

Err, because it's a responsibility I've had for many years and would happily inform you or anyone else what to look for. You see, whereas it's not uncommon for people responsible for contracting plumbers to know as much or more than the plumber, there's generally little point in paying for advice if you know as much as the adviser.

Abaolutely but, ask a question. Let me think, off the top of my head..... hmmmmm.......

I doubt that asking questions is likely to be a novel or controversial idea but you feel that past performance, figures that are widely available anyway, is the over-riding factor and you think those questions would be helpful?

cloud_dog wrote: »

I feel this whole discussion is going round in circles...

Or more darting from one stance to another. If you don't accept the word of Feesarefare, who is an adviser, on the impracticality of reviewing previous advice given by an adviser as you suggested, I'd suggest you do your own research by actually using one.

Otherwise, if you aren't an adviser, have never used one, and are never likely to use one, it becomes sort of pointless. As I understand it, your view is that, although you've never actually tried, choosing a good adviser is no more difficult than finding a plumber. Fine, I think we should leave it at that.

jem16

Rollinghome wrote: »

You see, whereas it's not uncommon for people responsible for contracting plumbers to know as much or more than the plumber,

I'm confused.

If you know as much or more than the plumber, why would you contract a plumber? Surely you would do the job yourself?

Rollinghome

jem16 wrote: »

I'm confused.

If you know as much or more than the plumber, why would you contract a plumber? Surely you would do the job yourself?

People in the construction industry, small and large builders, developers, architects, project managers, etc.etc. employ plumbers, roofers, heating engineers, brickies, chippies, labourers.... They may know as much as the people they employ, may have even been 'on the tools' themselves, but don't do the whole lot themselves.

Bit like offices. The MD might know how to make coffee and use the photo-copier but he he might employ someone to do it for him. I think it's called delegation.

If you have any other questions like that could you ask your mum?