'What is a fair state pension?' poll discussion

sm1234

My mum recently got early retirement at 60. She's fit as a fiddle, and will probably go on into her 90's meaning she will draw a pension more years than she was earning. She was an average earner and an average consumer of tax-funded services. There is no way she has paid a net contribution anywhere near high enough to fund 30-odd more years of state pension, healthcare, winter fuel allowance, bus pass, etc, etc. (and that's before we get started on her public sector pension).

As a generation the boomers are a take, take generation:
50s/60s/70s - boomers parents pay huge taxes - to fund rebuilding of country after WWII; NHS set up; LEA university funding set up [flow of wealth to baby boomers from their parents]
80's/90's/00's - boomers at height of earning power, govt borrows billions, PPI (spend now pay later), pensions cut, student grants cut, HPI enriches boomers/squeezes younger generation [flow of wealth from future generations to baby boomers]
10's/20's/30's/etc - pension timebomb inflates; debt from previous 25 years needs repaid [flow of wealth from future generation to boomers continues]

Hat's off to them as a generation - they really stuffed the rest of us! But it's a small ask to expect boomer pensioners to take an equal share of the cuts with the rest of us. Am utterly shocked that more than 200 people think £500 pw state pension is even possible!!

steve

rickbonar

The pensions problems have come about largely as a result of how we currently fund them in the UK.

Instead of putting the money into a savings pot which many of us assumed happened (and indeed many european countries like the Netherlands do); we simply fund current pensions from current working taxes.

Now if instead the people actually did put into some sort of government guaranteed pot for retirement then it would work far better and people would have more confidence in it.
The private pensions there is always the possibility of fraud from the operators and insolvency and this is why there isn't much confidence in them. Not just that you cannot get straight answers from the companies and although many are completely safe and trustworthy some are not.

I put £180 a week as a non pensioner in the vote.

McKneff

You really didnt need any help from us from stuffing up pet.

You did it all by yourselves.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

upton66

So all those of us who have put in the required number of years and paid voluntary contributions to ensure a maximum pension will be subsidising the same pension handout to all those who have never contributed to a state pension scheme. Same old story - honest tax payers subsidise the scroungers.

attemptingmoneysaving

So all you other non pensioners who said £120 per week plus, how exactly is it going to be paid for?

sm1234

Workers,

Here's the maths.

There are just over 3 contributers to every pensioner.

So whatever you think the weekly state pension should be, divide that figure by 3 and you, I and every worker need to earn this every week for the rest of your working life BEFORE you start saving for your own pension (it's being made clear to us that we will have to do this); start paying down the deficit/PPI/etc; pay taxes for current taxes/services, and earn a living.

And remember, this ratio is plummetting like an elephant falling off a cliff so the sum is a starting point that will only rise.

eg £120 divided by 3 = £40
£490 divided by 3 = £163

That's the first £163 of your earnings, and rising, every week of your working life!!

Steve

PS McKneff, I agree in part with your sentiment- as a generation my generation are falling into the same profligacy/debt trap that your generation set as the model, only we have been left with your debt pit on top of our own!

OldIron_2

I voted for 'as-is' - although I'm not really clear on how much is sufficient for a basic pension (as a non-pensioner), so I'm judging on the basis that as we don't obviously have large gangs of starving pensioners roaming the streets, it is sufficient.

Arguably, you could remove the basic pension completely, and use the normal benefits to keep people of of real poverty. In that case, you'd also get any private or second pension you'd contributed to (ie, you choose for yourself whether to save - jam now or jam tomorrow).

Not paying a pension to anyone who has one of their own isn't likely to work very well - you'll get to cream money of people who already have a pension, but further into the future people simply won't bother with them (it would be a huge money loser compared to any other form of saving).

I'm rather expecting retirement ages will rise (and track life expectancy); people retiring now are likely getting the best deal there will be, so the affordability calculations are going to be skewed by that.

jezebel

Bobl wrote: »

How can it be fair to reward someone for staying at home all their life rather than contributing to society, why do they deserve a pension at all? Those who have paid more in should get more out.

Those that stay at home (in which I assume you would count mothers, carers etc) are often contributing to society in different ways, not to mention hundreds of people that do jobs that support society and haven't always had good pay levels (teachers, nurses etc).

fivefingers

MSE_Lawrence wrote: »

I’m not a pensioner: Scrap it

299 votes? some sick, self serving individuals out there.

Remove the pensions of every Bankster in the country, limit their wages, £6 an hour? make it an imprisonable offence for them to leave their posts for 10 years, remove bonuses. That will pay for the pensions of all those hard working people who parasite banksters suck the blood from. And those economic thugs can still live in luxury surviving of the interest of all the money they have already defrauded from the taxpayer.

cazacarrie

There are many people ,especially women who are not at home on benefits.They are looking after children,caring for those in need and many are also volunteers running and supporting all sorts of organizations.Its easy to dismiss these people but they are working hard for very little,if any monetary gain.These people should be at least rewarded by being given a basic pension.Many of us find that as our children are older the burden of parents falls on our shoulders.Its about time people respected those who work,paid or not.We cant all do everything!