Advice ahead of a tribunal please!

lihar

Hi i will give a brief description to my case, and hope for some little nuggets of wisdom. I believe fighting my local council will be difficult and although I believe I have a case, sadly there are things that are against me, damn you fate! I am at the stage now, where i have a telephone hearing approaching and I just want to be as strong as possible. Most people I have told ie friends, have been surprised that I have got this far, in terms of strength but all say it seems very unfair. However they are biased because they want to stick up for me. It is not really applicable to hear "you dont really have a case" because I've got to this point, so I just really was looking for some words of strength and any pointers that might help me on the day. Council folk have so far been very abrupt and intimidating.

So i had a permit due for renewal, back this April. At the time, my car was making some weird noises. I took it to a garage and they said well personally I'd run it into the ground, it probably wont last much longer. Anyway with an estimated £1k bill to fix it, i really contemplated it's future. In the end, as my tax was due to end in May, I thought i would declare it SORN, take it off road to my grandmothers house/drive and think about what to do. In that time, my dad helped me fix it up and by beginning of June it was back to working order. The previous year when i had moved to the area, they had said apply for your permit and while it is waiting for arrival, any PCN's incurred will be cancelled. Which they were. I presumed that would be the same for me. Because now i was effectively not renewing but looking to get another one. Anyway, i bought a new tax disc and then took my car off sorn. I applied for a new permit and then drove my car back to the area. I managed a few days without incurring any PCN's. I really tried not to park in the zones, but a couple of times, it was unavoidable. I did not want to have to walk through a park/dark street alone, so i parked there. On the 2nd charge received and no new permit through the post, i had a moment of doubt about whether they would still refund me. Not sure why. I called them and the girl said it was no problem just to send them through as before and they'd be cancelled. I asked for an update on my permit, she said for some reason she couldnt find it, so to send it again. She suggested the internt sign up and then sending in supporting document. So i did this and then finally it came through. I sent in the charges and they were rejected! I replied back explaining that actually it wasnt that id just not bothered to reapply, the SORN etc. Anyway they wrote back sayin sorry cant talk about this anymore, you need to appeal them!!!

So i called up and spoke to someone, they said well you'll probably need to prove that call. I knew it was a call made from a work phone, because my mobile and home line did not have their number on it. So i asked them to run a search on 3 potential numbers (phone booths used at work for personal calls). They did not return my call. Then i went on holiday and was annoyed i didnt have time to get it resovled before i went. When i returned, to two letters saying now you're looking at £500 EACH!!

So i called up again and said this is ridiculous! I am appealing. I made a "phoney" call pretedning the situation had happened and she said thats fine send them through and they'll be cancelled!! Got her name.

Emailed them through, no response. Emailed again they said no we have posted you the offer. The offer being pay the charges! Or appeal! So i appealed, after the administrator told me that customer services cannot provide advice on the matter. So why have a customer service team? And why not make it clear that it would not be defnitely cleared?

I have now officialy appealed. Council responded saying they dont have a record of my call - of course they dont!!! - and the problem I have, is that wehn i asked my work for copies of the numbers dialled from the numbers, they stopped recording them for a period of time, oh yes from the date of my call for 2 weeks.HOW irritating! I included the email conversatoin from my work about this. The numbers are non listed, that is why they are not showing up on the council records, I'm sure.

The council have transcribed my "phoney" call, saying that that is the only call i made! But the call still suggests that I can have them canceled, so not sure why they sent it.

I;m so stressed and not sure what to say, without sounding like an angry emotional idiot - like i am doing here... :-(

Neil_B

27 views and no responses? Not really surprised mate: Your post is very confusing.

Try again.

Specifically, you have at least one PCN - or two - or more. There is some story around parking permits - but benusing.

You say that PCN reached £500 -- which indicates normal channel of appeals are exhausted and matter in hands of bailiff. Specific things you can do about that in the right circumstances --- BUT --

You then indicate you are off to ''Tribunal''. Errrr -- what exactly??

---

Exact timescales, exact position and your point of appeal would be a good start to getting responses.
-

Coupon-mad

You mean the adjudicator/PATAS is making a decision about the Council PCNs, yes?

It's not a tribunal, you make it sound like some sort of trial! How many PCNs?

Post a new thread on pepipoo forums for advice. Register first and read the sticky threads and FAQs at the top first:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

You would have done well to have got help earlier with this as there's a strong chance the paperwork and/or the lines/signs are flawed. You probably have LOTS more grounds for appeal than just citing the circumstances.

Let pepipoo posters see all pages of ALL paperwork received. Take close up pics of each page (and the back of the PCNs) if you don't have a scanner.

There is bound to be more you can put before the adjudicator. Get posting on pepipoo.

landmark

lihar wrote: »

i have a telephone hearing approaching

Explain….I have never heard of a 'telephone hearing'

lihar wrote: »

The previous year when i had moved to the area, they had said apply for your permit and while it is waiting for arrival, any PCN's incurred will be cancelled. Which they were
Anyway, i bought a new tax disc and then took my car off sorn. I applied for a new permit and then drove my car back to the area. I managed a few days without incurring any PCNs. I really tried not to park in the zones, but a couple of times, it was unavoidable.
On the 2nd charge received and no new permit through the post I called them and the girl said it was no problem just to send them through as before and they'd be cancelled.
I asked for an update on my permit, she said for some reason she couldnt find it, so to send it again.
She suggested the internt sign up and then sending in supporting document. So i did this and then finally it came through.
I sent in the charges and they were rejected!
I replied back explaining that actually it wasn’t that id just not bothered to reapply, the SORN etc. Anyway they wrote back saying sorry cant talk about this anymore, you need to appeal them!!!

When you applied for permits before driving your car back to the area/zones where you got these PCNs, did you have to make any payments up front? If so that would be your evidence.

lihar wrote: »

So i called up and spoke to someone, they said well you'll probably need to prove that call. I knew it was a call made from a work phone, because my mobile and home line did not have their number on it. So i asked them to run a search on 3 potential numbers (phone booths used at work for personal calls). They did not return my call. Then i went on holiday and was annoyed i didn’t have time to get it resolved before i went. When i returned, to two letters saying now you're looking at £500 EACH!!
So i called up again and said this is ridiculous!

Complain formally about this in order to get them to justify it escalating to this ridiculous figure.

lihar wrote: »

I am appealing. I made a "phoney" call pretending the situation had happened and she said that’s fine send them through and they'll be cancelled!! Got her name.
Emailed them through, no response. Emailed again they said no we have posted you the offer.

You can include these evasive tactics and non responses in your formal complaint!

lihar wrote: »

The offer being pay the charges! Or appeal! So i appealed, after the administrator told me that customer services cannot provide advice on the matter. So why have a customer service team?

And include that rhetorical question in your formal complaint.

lihar wrote: »

And why not make it clear that it would not be defnitely cleared?
I have now officialy appealed.

Still complain, because your complaint will be that they failed to give you a chance to challenge them prior to appealing. At the same time, the complaint deals with matters of procedural impropriety that the appeal does not, rather, the appeal deals only with the parking issue in hand. Therefore you need to complain in addition to appealing.

lihar wrote: »

Council responded saying they don’t have a record of my call - of course they don’t!!! - and the problem I have, is that when i asked my work for copies of the numbers dialled from the numbers, they stopped recording them for a period of time, oh yes from the date of my call for 2 weeks. HOW irritating!

Never mind, if the complaint won’t deal with it, you can try a freedom of information request from the telephone company for the adjudicator if it goes to tribunal etc.

lihar wrote: »

I included the email conversation from my work about this. The numbers are non listed, that is why they are not showing up on the council records, I'm sure.

That should help your case.

lihar wrote: »

The council have transcribed my "phoney" call, saying that that is the only call i made! But the call still suggests that I can have them cancelled, so not sure why they sent it.

They think they can claim that one declared call is insufficient evidence of yours to cancel a PCN. They have got another thing coming if you stick to your guns.

lihar wrote: »

I;m so stressed and not sure what to say, without sounding like an angry emotional idiot - like i am doing here... :-(

It will always be stressful appealing PCNs, but if you have the fortitide to see it through, then you have more of a chance of standing up to these bullies. Be strong and we wish you all the best with your appeal.:)

Neil_B

Whilst I think your post clarifies matters somewhat -- I think it more important that he concentrate on the PCN or PCNs first.

TPT do use telephone hearings. I believe you may still opt for personal but not sure.

Most importantly - how is he at a Tribunal stage when a previously mentioned £500 indicates bailiff involvement and beyond possibility of immediate normal channels of appeal???

He needs to explain properly.

lihar

I have had letters saying I can pay a reduced , half price per PCN fee, followed by me appealing against it. Further on I then had a letter saying the fines were now at £500 each, now when I have emailed the council with my further complaints, they then sent another letter,saying pay the reduced fines again. So who knows why they knocked it back down again.

Sorry if my post was confusing. I am just so frustrated and this ended up being a therapeutic speak as i think post. But thanks to those who have given me some answers. I will upload to where you suggested.

Thanks