Payment for not using farm land and keeping wildlife friendly & organic

luca_duca

hi, my sister in law lives on a farm with 10 acres of land. They rent out some to keep horses on and they were using the rest for cutting oak but they have been told by their council that its not allowed as the land is registered for agricultural use....anyway i have looked on the net to find out about subsidies for not using the farm land and maintaining a wildlife area, is there such a thing? or can you get grants? it has hedges all around and apple, pear, plum and walnut trees in a clump. they desperately need the money at the moment as things havent gone to plan with land use...they were going to appeal but all their snotty neighbours are complaining.. about what we're not quite sure but they seem to keep creating things...."you're not from around er......we don't like change"...localism gone mad!

any advice on how to make money from their land would be very gratefully received x

Volcano

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/ewgs

Deals with grants for creating woodlands though it looks like it depends on where you live.

Whilst I'm not a fan of cutting down trees unecessarily, can they not apply to do this legally? http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-5ygfrm

Otherwise I think that many land income schemes take a while to mature: Christmas trees can be grown, PYO fruit, rearing pigs isn't too difficult.

I'm taking a guess but maybe they haven't been living there long? There is good reasons why small farmers struggle to make a profit in this country and I can see that your friends would have the same problems. Best of luck to them though.

luca_duca

oopps...sorry i didn't mean they were cutting down the oak trees..they get them delivered in as they run a oak timber frame business...going for 6 mths, making all sorts of frames from windows to garages. i will take a look at the link, thank you

mehefin

I think you are referring to set aside which is a scheme where monies are made available for non use of land.
look at the Defra website for more detail - i am not sure how it works are if you need to have a minimum amount of land. the local NFU may be able to advise too - certainly worth contacting.
Have you ascertained through the council exactly what the reasons are taht they can not cut the oak? is it protected by tree preservation orders or something like that? Councils seems to have different interpretations of the regulations. Contact Woodlands Trust/English Heritage etc for more info.
Good luck

mehefin

Sorry crossposted - see where you are coming from now.

Debt_Free_Chick

All previous farming subsidies have been replaced by the Single Payment Scheme where you are paid for managing the land. You must, however, keep the land in good agricultural and environmental condition. You can't simply "leave it to nature".

In fact, creating a wildlife sanctuary is likely to require some management.

I've posted on your other threads about locals and their attitude towards you all. I sympathise, but you must change your attitude towards and about them if you want to survive in the present location!

Unfortunately, you demonstrate very little knowledge of buying agricultural land and all the obligations that go with it. Your neighbours may well have very valid complaints - as the letter from the Planning Officer demonstrates! You are stumbling around and doing things that would upset anyone in a similar rural community (me included )

You need to work within the community you are living and appreciate that rual communities are very, very different (a point that this Government has systematically failed to recognise!). Your actions so far probably appear, to them, to be an attempt to import the town into the country - no wonder you feel less than welcome.

You will need to make an effort to make friends and simply be accepted. All newcomers are viewed with some sceptism as there is a fear that they will want to change the countryside. Unfortunately, you have proved them right, albeit by making mistakes and not deliberately.

You need to "think local". Do you buy from local shops and other services? Have you joined any local groups/societies? Are you contributing in some way to your local community, perhaps through volunteering? Do you go to the local church? Follow what's going on with the Parish Council? Do you know what the current "hot topics" are in the Parish? Do you attend the local church? Drink in the village pub?

Rural communities are close-knit and no-one should expect simply to walk in and become a trusted member. You will need to work at it.

islandannie

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

All previous farming subsidies have been replaced by the Single Payment Scheme where you are paid for managing the land. You must, however, keep the land in good agricultural and environmental condition. You can't simply "leave it to nature".

In fact, creating a wildlife sanctuary is likely to require some management.

I've posted on your other threads about locals and their attitude towards you all. I sympathise, but you must change your attitude towards and about them if you want to survive in the present location!

Unfortunately, you demonstrate very little knowledge of buying agricultural land and all the obligations that go with it. Your neighbours may well have very valid complaints - as the letter from the Planning Officer demonstrates! You are stumbling around and doing things that would upset anyone in a similar rural community (me included )

You need to work within the community you are living and appreciate that rual communities are very, very different (a point that this Government has systematically failed to recognise!). Your actions so far probably appear, to them, to be an attempt to import the town into the country - no wonder you feel less than welcome.

You will need to make an effort to make friends and simply be accepted. All newcomers are viewed with some sceptism as there is a fear that they will want to change the countryside. Unfortunately, you have proved them right, albeit by making mistakes and not deliberately.

You need to "think local". Do you buy from local shops and other services? Have you joined any local groups/societies? Are you contributing in some way to your local community, perhaps through volunteering? Do you go to the local church? Follow what's going on with the Parish Council? Do you know what the current "hot topics" are in the Parish? Do you attend the local church? Drink in the village pub?

Rural communities are close-knit and no-one should expect simply to walk in and become a trusted member. You will need to work at it.

So this is a local place for local people.

What an insular post.

Debt_Free_Chick

islandannie wrote:

So this is a local place for local people.

What an insular post.

How can you live somewhere and not be local?

You really cannot begin to understand how different the mindset is. No, of course it's not reserved for local people. Visitors are very welcome, especially if they spend their well-earned cash in our local shops, pubs and services. Many parts of the countryside would not survive without the economy generated by visitors and tourism. I know exactly how important that is, living in an AONB.

But visitors come here because of how it is - so all of us living here have obligations to maintain its appeal, whilst trying to earn a living. That's what the planning procedures are for and, difficult as they are, by and large they work. They don't prevent planning development, but they do control it. So change is allowed ... provided you follow the rules and meet the guidelines.

You may not have seen the OP's other post. Her SIL & BF have set up a joinery business on a farm with no planning permission. Previously they had a sawmill there too. They have bought a farm - they don't understand what this entails; they have broken the planning laws and been served with an enforcement notice; they don't display any understanding of their local environment; and they wonder why their neighbours and other villagers are just a little peeved.

You surely don't think that all our farming land should be turned over to light/industrial use without going through the planning process do you? Even Sir Paul McCartney can't get away with building a merely log cabin on his farmland :rotfl: here's the report that went to the Planning Committee

Unfortunately, you too seem not to appreciate quite how different a rural community is. I speak as someone who was born, grew up, lived and worked in a city for 40 years before I moved to a very small rural community. I am only speaking from hard-learned experience.

islandannie

"You really cannot begin to understand how different the mindset is"

Yes I can I was born on a Farm and still live on a farm.

"You may not have seen the OP's other post"

No I haven`t And I have to agree they must obey planning regulations.

"You surely don't think that all our farming land should be turned over to light/industrial use without going through the planning process do you"

Ridiculous statement ALL is an awful lot.

"Unfortunately, you too seem not to appreciate quite how different a rural community is. I speak as someone who was born, grew up, lived and worked in a city for 40 years before I moved to a very small rural community. I am only speaking from hard-learned experience"

Oh yes I do! I live in an AONB Which is also a SSSI which I can assure you that no matter where you live is more rural,more isolated,and much a smaller cummunity than the one you live in.

Also as a point the single payment scheme you quote does not replace all previous farming subsidies just most,a fact i am very aware of when filling in my annual IACS.

Contrary to lots of Opinion i think this government is well aware of the special circumstances and needs of rural communities manifesting itself with the rather hefty and much welcome subsidy payment I receive annually,Incidently paid for by the taxes of the majority of citizens of this country,who just happen to be Townies.

As for people moving to rural communities and joining in community activities,I find that by making the first approach to welcome them and offering any advice if needed is much more friendly and productive,than the them and us attitude so often shown by country folk.

Well Rant over - not really a rant,I`ve livestock to attend to.
.

Debt_Free_Chick

islandannie wrote:

Oh yes I do! I live in an AONB Which is also a SSSI which I can assure you that no matter where you live is more rural,more isolated,and much a smaller cummunity than the one you live in.

Calm down - it's not a competition

The OP admits that she doesn't know what the neighbours are complaining about. However, someone has obviously told the LPA about the unlawful development on the farm. Concidence?

The OP then refers to the neighbours as "snotty". My post was a genuine attempt to suggest how they might get onto more friendly terms with their neighbours and other locals, having got off on the wrong foot.

In the other thread, the OP suggested that that at least one of the neighbours was initially friendly, so it could be that they have been welcomed. We simply don't know. But referring to neighbours as "snotty" is hardly going to endear anyone to their new neighbours, no matter where they live.

I don't think it's going to add to the thread if we ping-pong posts disagreeing with eachother, but I'll make just two more comments

I was born on a Farm and still live on a farm

So perhaps you don't realise that those who grew up in the city often move to the countryside without realising how different it is. One of the things that astounded me, was the real sense of community compared to the city, where you often don't even know your neighbours' names, even in a road full of houses. Many people don't expect the closed-knitted spirit and feel as though everyone is "poking their nose into their business".

You think that my comments amounted to an "insular" approach. What do you suggest to the OP?

luca_duca

wow what a response!

firstly thank you to everyone that has replied so far, i very much appreciate the different responses it is proving very useful to see all the different angles of a situation as it gives us a clearer perspective.

to clear things up a bit

The neighbour that was friendly has remained friendly, has no complaints and if they have any concerns they come and talk to my SIL

unfortunately the neighbour & villagers that are complaining have never made any attempt to welcome my SIL an BF and have always complained, never once approaching them direct to see if the matter of complaint could be rectified..they instead went straight to the council...not really fair as some of the thing s that have been complained about have even confused the council e.g the knocked down wall - that the council said was completely up to them (SIL & BF) if they wanted to knock down as it was on their land, only four bricks high, just a simple red brick wall that had no structural/law abiding significance

They do go down to the local pub, they don't go to church as they are not religious.

yes i agree they were ignorant about land use law...something which we have all told them but they are now trying to get it right. but the feeling is thats it you've made one mistake...no more chances...it isn't putting the unfriendly villagers in a very good light either...where is the community in that attitude?


They have stopped using the sawmill although it was 10 acres away from the nearest house so not that noisy and they are going to confine their business to just the barn which is going to be fully soundproofed.
They are applying for Full Planning Permisson to change the barn use.
my boyfriend and i are encouraging them to offer free manure, woodshavings to the locals and have suggested that they should go to the pub more often.
they say they are not made to feel unwelcome there.
from what we can tell (my boyfriend and i) its a few willagers that have clumped together...apparently at a local party this weekend there were comments of joy at the thought that their house is on the market..."we have finally managed to push them out"

not great communications going on here as they have never spoken to this group or individuals on a personal level.

I reason I called them snotty is because of this pulling together and lack of any communication on a helpful level...they have made them feel like they don't belong here on any level...not very kind, as 'islandannie' said, welcoming would have been more productive allround.

thank you for all your views