Options for business on agricultural land

luca_duca wrote:

the latest being burning of horse dung.....which the people from the stable have done on rare occassions. the claim is that it smells.....

If they were burning properly dried dung it shouldn't smell that bad at all.

If however they were just throwing it straight onto a fire I can see why the neighbours were complaining..

Does anyone know if you can work from a workshop on agricultural land with out the need for 'change of use'?

Probably not, there is an abundance of land/units for light commercial use and not very much for agricultural.

If they start to let people turn our greenery into yet another industrial estate the entire country will be a lot worse off.

Your best bet is going to be to move to somewhere designed for the type of activities you are going to be carrying out on the land.

You can always apply for permission but I doubt it will be granted (especially if one of the neighbours is a councillor).

If the timber is being bought in from a local source, would that be a business contact that could be an ally?
If nothing else it would enforce the local employment angle, and they might know of a business site for you.
The letter does not say which activities are unacceptable; with the sawmill out of the equation, would the workshop be okay on your land? I think that it would be worth consulting the compliance officer, or someone from the planning office, (without making an application in the first instance). It can be the case that officials would rather give advice than have to go through the application procedure needlessly.
What I mean to say is, it's obvious that you all have the best of intentions and are not breaking rules deliberately. Asking for help because you don't want to cause trouble/get it wrong is often more likely to get people on side than putting in applications that have no hope because of some technical detail and causing said officials a lot of work. If these people work for the council in some capacity then they are there for your benefit, one way or another, so why no try and make use of their expertise?
Good luck!

Here's the reply posted on your other thread

luca_duca wrote:

Does anyone know if you can work from a workshop on agricultural land with out the need for 'change of use'?
or in a barn commercially if it is soundproofed, i have looked on the net but we're not sure, its a new area to us and we can't afford to get it wrong

No. You cannot undertake anything other than agricultural activities on agricultural land. They would need to apply for Change of Use permission. Even if it were not agricultural land, permission would probably be required to run this type of business on any non-business land e.g. private home.

The concern will be that agricultural land is being removed i.e. converted to use other than farming-related activities.

Would you get planning permission for change of use? You need to look at the local development plan for the area and the relevant planning guidlines. Is this Hart? If so, the Local Plan is here

You really need to read the whole document to understand how the local planning policy works, but policy statements RUR2, 3 &4 are most relevant. You might also want to look at the Core Strategy document, particulary the section on the (local) economy and especially page 36 (it's the 36th page, but page number 30. You'll see what I mean when you open the pdf). If your application "ticks all the right boxes", you are likely to succeed, but it's difficult to know what those boxes are without more specific guidance from the Council. You will see that they have yet to publish their Development Control Policies, but the Core Strategy seems very positive about farm diversification. Note, that it suggests that such applications would need to be accompanied by a Farm Business Plan, but this requirement may not yet be in force. It would help your case if you specifically stated which parts of your application address which policies listed in the guidance documents which are available from Hart Council.

Whilst the Council has objectives to support farmers wishing to diversify, it also wants to preserve existing farming opportunities, so I think you will face a battle. You are less likely to succeed if there are suitable business units nearby too .... as it would be expected that they would be used first, in preference to converting existing agricultural land.

You should also take into account the current grade of the land - do you know what grade of agricultural land it is? Highest grades are 1, 2 and 3a - this is considered the best quality of land for farming and, again, if you have high-grade land, there will be resistance to taking it permanently out of farming use (which is what you're asking for).

Finally, you need to look at the national planning guidance too. This is Planning Policy Statement 7 - Sustainable Development in Rural Areas

By now, you should be getting the impression that this will not be a simple planning application - you are going to have to make out a strong business case for change of use, coupled with a strong demonstrated sympathy for the local environment.

There is, however, a glimmer of hope if you keep most of the land as farming land and simply apply to diversify by changing use of one of the existing buildings only, whilst keeping the existing farming activities. Especially if you are no longer operating a sawmill - that would raise issues of access of large vehicles to the sawmill, increasing traffic on rural roads, disposal of waste, creation of a potential eyesore/blot on the landscape etc, etc.

It's a pity you're having to import timber though. It may not count against you, but it would almost certainly be a bonus if you had a local source, as you would be adding further to the local economy, which is a strong theme in all the planning guidelines.

Basically some of the villagers have got together and they are trying everything they can to get at my sister in law and her boyfriend because they have taken a dislike to them.

This probably happens in every village and, to be honest, it's not surprising that villagers have taken a disliking to them. No offence, but let me try and put things how they see them. Here we have two typical townies who have moved to the countryside and set about turning it into an industrial unit. Why can't people understand that the countryside is so beautiful, because everyone works to make it that way?

That might seem somewhat harsh and I sympathise with your SIL & BF as they have been ignorant of the planning laws rather than deliberately flouting them. But villagers won't see it like that. If you want stay at the farm, you will all need to go out of your way to make friends with the locals and convince them that you have made mistakes simply because you didn't know what the rules are. I say all of this as a townie who moved to a similar rural area 4 years ago, having previously lived in a city all my life!!

They want to apply for Planning Permission but have been put off by the letter and the fact that their neightbour and some others from the village have put in complaints about them

The complaints don't help, but any planning application (including change of use) is judged on planning merits i.e. scored against the guidelines.

also

The reason for all this info is because one of the villagers was on the council so has connections so they don't know if their application would even get anywhere.

The same applies ... the application is judged on planning merits and no-one is able to "twist the arm" of the Council. But, of course, everyone locally will have an opportunity to comment on the application. Objections alone do not count for much - only objections that address planning guidelines will count (see later).

So, what should you do? I think you clearly need some professional help & guidance here, unless you are confident about making an application that addresses all the planning guidelines. Contact Defra for information on the Rural Development Programme. They used to offer one day's free consultation for farmers looking to diversify, but I'm not sure if that still applies (as the old Rural Enterprise Scheme closed in June, this year).

The CLA may be able to help, but you need to join. You might want to check exactly what help they can give you, if the fee is expensive.

Otherwise, you'll need a local surveyor or land agent. You need one that is definitely LOCAL as they need to understand the local planning guidelines and one with specific experience in farm diversification projects. This might be a useful discussion point for neighbours/villagers who might be able to recommend someone - perhaps a villager works in this area?

You might want to look at other successful applications. You can do that online here, just using the postcode. It will show you any historic planning permissions granted for your property ... but you will need to look at others too. There is no easy way to search for applications that simply look at farming diversification

You should get to know your Parish Councillors too. All Parish Council meetings are open to the public, so you can just turn up. The Agenda should be posted on the village noticeboards at least three working days in advance. You might find it interesting to attend a meeting that discusses local planning applications - especially ones involving agricultural land!

Just to cheer you up a bit, getting change of use is possible. Have a look at this one, near to me. However, that particular application relates to a farm that has been derelict for many years and the grade of the land is low - but there were 40-odd objections from locals including the Parish Council and they still got their permission! Look carefully at how they submitted their application and look at the what was submitted to the Council Planning Committee here pages 81-94 as it shows you exactly how the Council considered their application. Note, though, that there are many conditions that apply to it (pages 90-93) :eek: It also demonstrates that objections from residents don't count for much, if the application "ticks all the right boxes".

You might be wondering why I am "qualified" to give you all this advice - I happen to be a Parish Council Clerk in a rural area similar to your SIL's

My personal suggestion would be for you to get professional help on this. At least a feasibility study to see if it's worthwhile applying for change of use permission.

HTH

luca_duca wrote:

thank you everyone for all your input, it is proving very useful and giving an objective view and a chance to get things right and be successful

If you post the name of the Council that issued the enforcement notice, I might be able to find the right documents to help you