Younger dog becoming aggressive and dominant

asset2004

I wonder if you could give me some advice please.
We have a 2yo Border Collie !!!!! that we've had since a puppy who recently has started to be very agressive to our other dog (a 4yo terrier). The BC will pick fights, try and dominate her and not allow the T to come into the room, once they are in the room the BC will stare at the other dog and has sometimes attacked her.
This doesn't just happen in the house, it can happen when we are out walking. The T is very soft and doesn't stand up for herself, she spends most of the time hiding under the sideboard so the BC can't get to her.
We have a cage the BC which she goes into at night and also when we are out during the day. If we put the BC in it she'll growl at the T if she walks past.
Any ideas?
TIA

EmptyPockets

Have you had both dogs from when they were puppies (i.e terrier first, then BC when Terrier was 2yo?), or is one of them a recent addition?

asset2004

Both have been owned since puppies ie T then BC.
TBH the BC was always walked over the T since she arrived but now she has started attacking her, when she walks in through the door.

cinderellacomplex

Hmm... to me it sounds more like herding behaviours... trying to 'move' the other dog, staring at the other dog, not liking being shut up and unable to affect the other dog's movements.

First thing that I would suggest is moving the BCs crate to a place where the terrier cannot walk past or be seen, this should remove some tension. It could have contributed quite a bit to the problem if the BC was crated and bored and was watching the terrier moving around - BCs tend to get wound up by being able to see other animals while crated or confined.

The other thing that I would suggest is just working with the BCs attention on you. Without the terrier present you could teach her a cue which means to focus on you, or you could teach her a positive interrupter which is basically a sound that you reinforce so many times that it becomes muscle memory that when they hear that sound they stop what they are doing and look to you. Once either of those are in place you can start working with the terrier situation. When she starts to focus on the terrier (BEFORE she gets wound up, just when she starts to stare) then interrupt this behaviour and get her to focus on you. Then give her something else to do like fetch a toy or if it is a quieter time of night give her something long-lasting like a nylabone to chew on. If you have time at other times of day to give her more mental stimulation by trick-training or something then that would be beneficial too, I think.

EmptyPockets

I'm no expert on canine dominance, pack and rank order etc, but we do have a fairly similar set-up to you: we have a terrier, and a border collie, but in our situation it is the terrier who is more dominant.

We try to make sure the dogs know that we are in total control of their lives and the household: we are the boss.

We regularly seperate the two dogs, with the use of a safety/stair gate - one goes into the kitchen and the other has the roam of downstairs. After an hour or so they get swapped over. They have things to constantly occupy their minds, like Kongs filled with food treats that they have to sit and work for.

Both dogs are given one-to-one time, and when they are allowed out together, we control if and how much they are allowed to play/wrestle like dogs do.

Both dogs also have a crate and they are trained to go into their own crate when we say the word 'in'. Then they know it's 'chill-out' time.

If you think of your family as the 'pack', with you as the leader, a pack leader would never allow other lower pack members to fight or be dominant over one another. We're trying to teach our terrier that we set the boundaries. If he shows dominant behaviour to us or the collie, he usually gets a trip into his crate or into the other room for a few minutes.

We also treat and reward them for being CALM in the same room together. Naughty or dominant behaviour is corrected by seperating them and giving a firm 'no'... good, calm behaviour is rewarded as treats just 'fall from the sky'.

CFC

asset2004 wrote: »

I wonder if you could give me some advice please.
We have a 2yo Border Collie !!!!! that we've had since a puppy who recently has started to be very agressive to our other dog (a 4yo terrier). The BC will pick fights, try and dominate her and not allow the T to come into the room, once they are in the room the BC will stare at the other dog and has sometimes attacked her.
This doesn't just happen in the house, it can happen when we are out walking. The T is very soft and doesn't stand up for herself, she spends most of the time hiding under the sideboard so the BC can't get to her.
We have a cage the BC which she goes into at night and also when we are out during the day. If we put the BC in it she'll growl at the T if she walks past.
Any ideas?
TIA

Take a look at what empty pockets has said and consider it in relation to the points of your post I have highlighted. All these are points you need to address as these are behaviours that you can control. You need to do it earlier rather than later as your collie is bigger than your terrier, and she means business. Your terrier knows that the collie means business, that's why she's hiding.

Raksha

How are you currently dealing with these situations?

cinderellacomplex

CFC wrote: »

All these are points you need to address as these are behaviours that you can control.

The problem is that yes.. those behaviours can be suppressed... but it really does sound like the root cause is a herding pattern and frustration at being unable to herd the terrier and it is that root cause which would need to be interrupted in order for the problem to be fully sorted.

The collie isn't being dominant (not that I agree at all with dominance theory these days anyway) she is just using her natural instinct to herd because she hasn't been shown not to and has not had her energies directed elsewhere. Dogs are pretty hard to herd though so it's not working and she is getting frustrated to the point where she is just attacking the other dog to get him to move. It is the same pattern as happens with children too, though usually that is interrupted earlier.

You're right about it needing to get sorted soon though, things will only get worse if they continue like this.

dragonmonkey

HMmmmmm

Agree with what EmptyPockets about the "pack"

I have two Border Collie Brothers and I had to sort out a problem with them when they were younger and also experienced the out walking thing. I'd advise to knock it on the head before it gets any worse and make sure you are the Alpha Dog.

Also one off mine tends to get jealous and shows his teeth to other, again in that case he gets corrected.

They would also stare at each other to start a chase game goin. Maybe she is doin that with the terrier???

cinderellacomplex

I don't really want to post again but I am worried about how this situation might unfold if the OP tries to assert themselves over the dog using the dominance theory. Here is some reading if you really want to find out about why the dominance model has gone out of fashion (unless you are Cesar Milan or another trainer of questionable ethics)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/APBC-Book-Companion-Animal-Behaviour/dp/0285638874/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286363110&sr=1-1
The APBC Book of Companion Animal Behaviour [Paperback]
"Product Description
Essential reading, now updated and expanded, for all professionals working in animal behaviour counselling, animal welfare or veterinary practices, with insights that all pet owners will find invaluable ... The contents include ... the use of punishment, why the dominance model for the way we live with our dogs is inappropriate..."

American Veterinary Society of Animal Behaviour statement on dominance theory:
http://www.gooddog.co.uk/avsab-dominance-theory-in-behavior-modification-of-animalsdoc.pdf
"The AVSAB emphasizes that the standard of care for veterinarians specializing in behavior is that dominance theory should not be used as a general guide for behavior modification"

Report on recent research:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521112711.htm
"The researchers spent six months studying dogs freely interacting at a Dogs Trust rehoming centre, and reanalysing data from studies of feral dogs, before concluding that individual relationships between dogs are learnt through experience rather than motivated by a desire to assert “dominance”."

OP, I wish you the best with your dogs, I hope that you manage to find a solution. However, please remember that these behaviours are only symptoms of a problem and that you need to find out what that problem is in order to tackle it and ensure that other problems do not surface which are related to the same cause.

CFC

Cinderalla, I totally disagree with you. I think most people know that two dogs together may or may not get on, and often problems are greatest with !!!!! to !!!!! or entire dog to entire dog interactions in one household.

Many people turn dog training into a religion if you ask me. Some worship Milan and some vilify him as the devil. I don't see him or his approach mentioned anywhere in this thread till you brought it up. Your religion is anti Mr Milan, which is your choice. But please try to quote sources, rather than press releases, which are sensationalised for interest.

If you want to read the first hand study you will find it here,but you'll have to subscribe.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B82Y3-4W8NTYV-7&_user=121739&_coverDate=06%2F30%2F2009&_rdoc=7&_fmt=high&_orig=browse&_srch=doc-info(%23toc%2333047%232009%23999959996%231099103%23FLA%23display%23Volume)&_cdi=33047&_sort=d&_docanchor=&_ct=7&_acct=C000010018&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=121739&md5=e59f17d5224bdd1b36aea4a9afdb7c6b

If you are not in control of your dog, your dog has dominance in your household, no matter how you try to dress it up with 'breed behaviour psychology'. It's not the psychology or the word 'dominance' that needs fixing, it's the problem behaviour, and there are a multitude of different ways to approach it.