Where is the passion?

diable

martinbuckley wrote: »

The Blue Rinse brigade would have you believe all the world problems stemmed from Blair & Brown's reign.

rarr rarr........

MrsCrafty

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

This situation was certainly not created by the banks. This is what the Labour Party keep trying to have you believe.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the banks are 'good guys'. What banks have done is to lend, lend, lend, encouraging massive personal debt, which cannot be paid. As a consequence, most of their assets went belly-up, and the Government stepped in to re-capitalise them.

Now, totally separate from this, and over the last 15 years, something completely different has happened. Brother Brown & Co have consistently been spending more and more money, to the extent that we now have an absolutely massive debt. You will not find, within that expenditure, anything relating to banks, since the bank bail-out is purely a "Capital" issue, and very little to do with revenue.

Taxation income went up and up, so spending on benefits and tax credits went up more and more. Over 800,000 new public sector jobs were created, very few of them in any "front facing" job like nurses, doctors etc. All the extra bureacracy is costing us all £billions.

The legacy of the banking crisis includes the massive slump in house prices, the drying up of loans, with a consequence of much less spending - destined to put a sharp decline on taxation revenue.

Not to be deterred, Brother Brown decided not to address the consequent increase in the gap between income and expenditure, by austerity, but by spending even more in the short term.

So let us all be a little bit more rational in our debates and keep the two issues separate. They are only linked by Brother Brown's rather suicidal decision to make the initial over-spending crisis even greater under the smoke screen of the banker's equally diabolical behaviour.

What has happened is the equivalent of a family that has, for 15 years, been earning £50K and spending £52K. Inevitably, something's going to hit the fan. Imagine that eldest son comes home to announce that he tried a bit of gambling, but lost £30K.

Now father has to re-mortgage the house to pay back the £30K and keep his son out of trouble. This would be a good time, also, to control his own spending because not only was he getting deeper and deeper in debt, but no, he spends even more to keep his family 'happy'.

The son will eventually pay 'daddy' back (we hope) but sure as hell Daddy better control his expenditure back down to what he can afford!

FINALLY, someone who can say what I think, but so much more eloquently. Thank You Loughton Monkey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:T

MegaMiniMouse

RJP33 wrote: »

This isn't correct, the banks worked in line with the laws set by the government. Logically the regulation is therefore at fault.

The reason we're in such a mess is because our government put nothing away in the years of plenty (actually running a GDP deficit in the years before the crash) so when the famine hits we're hit hardest.

The banks did not cause the deficit.

If you drive at 20mph in a 30mph limit, and run down a pedestrian, the fault will be yours alone

The correctness of any government's policy is a matter of opinion - there are no 'facts' in economic or political theory

The commercial activities of the banks led directly to their failure

But they didn't have to worry - they had the power to demand a bailout from the likes of you and me

That is what is wrong, and we should not have to accept the consequences

MMM

System

MegaMiniMouse wrote: »

they had the power to demand a bailout from the likes of you and me

That is what is wrong, and we should not have to accept the consequences

MMM

I'm afraid you have to, and will if it ever happens again.
Banks are inherently unstable beacuse they borrow short and lend long. That's what people want them for. But it means that if there is any kind of loss of confidence, the weakest one crashes. If a government does not bail it out, the loss of confidence spreads to all banks, even ultimately to the safest most ethical bank you can imagine.

If you don't accept that, then capitalism is not for you, and you will have to go and live in the People's Paradise of Albania or North Korea.

RJP33

MegaMiniMouse wrote: »

If you drive at 20mph in a 30mph limit, and run down a pedestrian, the fault will be yours alone

The correctness of any government's policy is a matter of opinion - there are no 'facts' in economic or political theory

The commercial activities of the banks led directly to their failure

But they didn't have to worry - they had the power to demand a bailout from the likes of you and me

That is what is wrong, and we should not have to accept the consequences

MMM

Unfortunately such is the way our economy is supported we'd have to do exactly the same should the same happen again otherwise we'd run the risk of more NR style runs on the bank and the whole system could collapse. It's the nature of capitalism.

While you're correct that their actions were reckless and I won't defend their actions, it's the governments job to regulate their activities and it's not what caused the current crisis - that's the spending deficit.

MegaMiniMouse

The previous two posts are waffle, and continue to confuse political/ideological/economic theory with commercial reality

Banks are no different from the guy outside the pub selling kebabs (but they have managed to convince themselves, and many others, otherwise)

MMM

blueboy43

RJP33 wrote: »

I'd like to give them credit for the original decision back in the 90s but I don't recall any of the parties wanting to join the Euro recently.

Tony Blair, Ken Clarke, Vince Cable, Nick Clegg all wanted to join the Euro - and have all said so in the last 6 years.

MegaMiniMouse

blueboy43 wrote: »

Tony Blair, Ken Clarke, Vince Cable, Nick Clegg all wanted to join the Euro - and have all said so in the last 6 years.

I would not dare to challenge the accuracy of what you say, but the present crisis was created by the commercial activities of the banks

Politicians of all parties stood by and watched as the damage was done

What the f** does uk membership of the euro have to do with it?

MegaMiniMouse

MegaMiniMouse wrote: »

I would not dare to challenge the accuracy of what you say, but the present crisis was created by the commercial activities of the banks

Politicians of all parties stood by and watched as the damage was done

What the f** does uk membership of the euro have to do with it?

The title of this thread is 'Where is the Passion?', and I am pleased to say that a certain amount of passion seems to be emerging both in the Houses of Parliament, and in the PublicAtLarge. Even better, there seems to be a swing of opinion on the MSE forums against the banks!

I have openly discussed my position on here as a Self-Cert Mortgagor, and have received much abuse

But the Self-Cert Mortgagees have collectively recovered from the results of their mistakes (largely due to the taxpayer bailouts), and yet they refuse to acknowledge their debts

Many Self-Cert Mortgagors, on the other hand, continue to struggle with the property devaluations which the banks activities have engineered

Additionally, many many innocent people, many of whom have never been anywhere near the possibility of becoming a property owner, now face the prospect of unemployment and benefit cuts because of the cynical manipulations of the property markets by the banks

MMM

Cleaver

mbga9pgf wrote: »

^^^^ Retard. Have you got a full set of chromosomes and a functioning brain?

A vote for Labour is a vote for state bankrupcy.

You can only have what you can pay for thicko.

Do you actually speak to people like this in everyday life?