another driver caused me to get a PCN

worriedgal

Hi everybody, my first ever post!

Right, I was driving my car and about to go over a box junction. All was fine, plenty of space for me to drive through it... Until the car in the next lane realised that because of a big truck in front of them, they would not be able to drive through the same box junction... And rather nicely decided to swerve onto my lane, causing ME to have to stop onto the box junction.

So I am now the rather not so amused owner of a PCN, which I intend to contest.
I am not too sure how to best go about it, should I explain what happened and request pictures of me entering the junction box and driving through it so as to show the other car taking "my" space?

There is a phone number on my PCN that I can call for advice, not quite sure if this will help or not.
PCN was received today so I guess I have 14 days to try and sort this out before the amount doubles, however I will be away the whole of next week.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
worriedgal

peter_the_piper

You need to see the video to see if the contravention was correct. The contravention is to enter the box if your exit is blocked. If as you say the exit was clear and then was blocked while you were in the box then you are in the clear. Come back after seeing the vid. Also post same on pepipoo.com.

kwaks

Appeal that the contravention did not occur.

The contravention is entering and stopping when the exit is not clear due to stationary vehicles.

If a vehicle changes lanes after you have entered the box, or a pedestrian crosses in front etc etc then you are OK to stop. The crucial factor is the situation as you entered the box.

As Peter says, stick it on pepipoo and if possible get pictures of the box itself, as most likely that will also not be complient.

Coupon-mad

Clicky link here shows you some other YBJ cases already referred to pepipoo forums, start reading them and then go to the main forums at pepipoo on this link below once you've read up on the issues. And read these links as well:

http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/pages/Steve.html

http://moneyboxjunction.wordpress.com/

Then register and post a new thread of your own with pics of the PCN (all pages):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

You need to see the video evidence, not still photos. So make an appointment if that's the only way you can see the footage. Look to see what it shows at the point you decided to enter the box, that's the only moment you could have possibly contravened. The question is, did you:

'cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.'

Post on pepipoo to help you through the appeals process, nowt to lose except the risk of an adjudicator not agreeing with you and telling you to pay the fine (no costs, nothing else except you'll have lost the chance to pay the Council the discounted fine).

That's the situation. I would appeal if it were me but it's your money of course.

worriedgal

Thanks all for your help.
Pepipoo is indeed a great website, I found loads of useful info there.

I have prepared my contestation and will send it (by email) on Monday. Also, the box junction does not appear to be compliant so I will add this one in!

Coupon-mad, I'm a bit perplexed by your comment that if I loose my appeal, I will have lost the chance to pay the discounted price. I phoned the helpline on PCN and was assured by a member of staff that if I contest my PCN within 14 days of it being issued, its amount is frozen at the discounted price (£60) until the appeal is either accepted or rejected, and then it starts again from then. I repeated this again to him to make sure we were on the same wavelength and again he assured me that I would not loose the chance to pay the discounted fine.
Was he misinformed, or.... lying to me?!?!

Thanks,
worriedgal

kwaks

worriedgal, let me tell you what will probably happen.

You will appeal. They will refuse appeal and re-offer discount. Then you appeal to adjudicator (at this point you will lose chance of discount). Just before adjudication the council will accept you were right all along and cancel it.

worriedgal

Hi kwaks, yep that's what I'm hoping will happen...
£60 is a lot of money, even more so when it's all because of somebody else's actions!

I will fight this with all my might, however fight is not with the council but with TFL. Not sure whether it makes a difference or not!

kwaks

No difference. It common for both to refuse initial appeals, in fact the paperwork they use to refuse usually gives you additional appeal points

Coupon-mad

kwaks wrote: »

worriedgal, let me tell you what will probably happen.

You will appeal. They will refuse appeal and re-offer discount. Then you appeal to adjudicator (at this point you will lose chance of discount). Just before adjudication the council will accept you were right all along and cancel it.

Yes, this is the stage I meant you'll have lost the discounted fine 'offer' - adjudicator stage.

But personally I wouldn't even be considering the deadline for the 'bribe/discount' because I would be appealing all the way with pepipoo's help and waiting for the Council to fold.

worriedgal

Ok, thanks both, fight is definitely on!

Bring on Monday, grrrrr.