Landlady problems, anything we can do?

taking_time

Hi

We have an assured shorthold tenancy (and a lying landlady).

When we moved in she told us if we wanted to buy a house, we could move onto a month by month agreement, and that basically she would make it easy for us. She told us this three times (when we moved in, when we renewed and last week).

She asked us to give her two months notice (our contract is for one month) of if we would want to renew our agreement, we agreed as a favour. She then called and had a go because I could not give her an answer that week (it was Thursday) and said we needed to think about it. We called her Monday and agreed for us to go to a month by month agreement, with us agreeing to give two months notice (double what's legally required). She promised all sorts of things, that we could leave in the middle of a month, when we bought somewhere etc.

Then we got a letter from the estate agent with a completely different agreement, saying we had agreed to it, and to call if there are problems. It could make us liable for 2-3 months rent, if they cannot find another tenant. It's a 3 month agreement, with us having to move out end Feb (unless she gets someone else), when we want to move out before Christmas. She has now basically thought about it, and that she could have no tenant over Christmas. She claims we charmed her, and that's why she's changed her mind.

I feel so angry about it, we've been told we have to sign or move out. I am 7 months pregnant, we told her this and that we wanted to buy. I am really just shocked she's effectively asking us to be out of pocket rather than her. The woman owns 3 houses and lives on a massive estate. From what I can see we have little choice. She does not want us to talk to her now.

She's been average to poor as a landlady regarding repairs (not calling us back, having to leave messages with her husband who's useless and can't take a message etc). I am concerned now about having to deal with her for repairs. The arrangement was that she dealt with repairs, and the estate agent dealt with the contract. IF we have to sign, and it's our only option to stay, can I say I want repairs to go through the estate agent (given we are now not allowed to talk to her)? Or at the very least, be given a regularly checked email address for repairs, so I don't have to leave messages with her family, and then get call back (maybe) a week later.

If she had not done this, we probably would have not bought, and would have stayed longer etc. We like the house and have tried to be good tenants (we let her have access at no notice etc).

She's a typical landlord, wants the rent, but has a sob story about how much it costs her to rent (not very professional).

Thanks

anselld

"We have an assured shorthold tenancy" - Do you? What have you actuall signed?

If you do, then you are not obliged to renew AST as it automatically converts to a periodic agreement at the end of the fixed term. The terms are the same regarding repairs, etc. You must give one months notice to coincide with a rent day, the LL must give two months via S21 notice.

Unless you have already received a S21 notice then you are entitled to stay without renewing. The only drawback is the LL could issue S21 with 2 months notice at any time.

Ignite

From what you've said, the new agreement starts at the beginning of December. Is this correct? When do you want to move out in real terms, not in rental terms? Have you found a place?

At the end of the day, the current agreement will come to the end of it's fixed term. As has been mentioned by anselld, it will become a periodic agreement. This is not something that comes from the agents or the landlady but is part of the law. At this point by law, she has to give you 2 months and you have to give 1 months notice, falling in line with the rental months. Her notice has to be on a correctly filled in Section 21 form. What has not been said is that even at the point of the section 21 being given, this is only a legal notice. To get you out of the property, she would have to go through the courts and follow a legal process. This will take time. What might be worth reminding the agents about is that if you don't sign, you will be expected to move out before Christmas and the property would be empty anyway. Also, you could sign the new agreement and send it back with the sections you don't like (ie the bit about having to pay rent after the notice period has expired - if you are out of a fixed period) crossed out. Presuming the fixed period and notice period has expired, she is not allowed to expect you to pay rent for the period she is trying to get a new tenant.

Ok, hope this helps.

clutton_2

if you live in england or wales.. then dont sign the new agreement whatever you do... you are now on statutory periodic tenancy and as others have said you only need to give one months notice to coincide with rent day

even when the LL issues a Section 21 notice (2 months notice) you dont have to move out when that expires (if the notice is correctly completed) - the LL then must apply to the court for a possession order, and even then you dont have to move out until the LL gets a bailiffs warrant... so all this will take 4-5 months... so dont worry - stay put and change the locks if you feel insecure

poppysarah

And put repair requests in writing an cc them via the local "private sector rented team"...
Log any harrassment.

Cissi

taking_time wrote: »

Hi

We have an assured shorthold tenancy (and a lying landlady).

When we moved in she told us if we wanted to buy a house, we could move onto a month by month agreement, and that basically she would make it easy for us. She told us this three times (when we moved in, when we renewed and last week).

She asked us to give her two months notice (our contract is for one month) of if we would want to renew our agreement, we agreed as a favour.

Are you in England&Wales? I'm not sure if I've understood your post correctly, but this doesn't look right to me. Assuming that you are in E&W, as far as I'm aware there is no such thing as a contract for one month. You have a legal right as a tenant to stay for a minimum of an initial 6-month term. When did you actually move in?

The LL can issue you with a S21 to leave at the end of the initial AST, but they have to give you 2 months notice. Once the AST expires, if it isn't renewed you move on to a Statutory Periodic tenancy. The LL still has to give you 2 months' notice (to coincide with the tenancy dates); as you correctly stated you only have to give 1 month.

Assuming that you haven't signed any renewal documents for another AST and that your LL hasn't issued a S21, then I don't think you have anything to worry about. If you want to move out before Christmas, make sure you give 1 month's notice to coincide with the tenancy dates. Ie, if you moved in on the 15th of one month, give notice before the 15th of November and move out on December 14th. If you wanted to stay until the 20th, in this example you'd be liable for rent until January 14th. Make sure you do get your dates right as it doesn't sound as if your LL will make any concessions, no matter what she agreed to initially.

On the other hand, if your LL decides to give you notice, she could serve you with an S21 on Monday (18/10) and depending on your tenancy dates you may have to leave just before Christmas - but that seems to be pretty much your plan anyway. She can't get you out earlier - again, assuming that she hasn't already served the S21.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

clutton_2

"" if your LL decides to give you notice, she could serve you with an S21 on Monday (18/10) and depending on your tenancy dates you may have to leave just before Christmas ""

sorry - this is simply not true... a Section 21 is a notice which tells a tenant that the landlord wants the property vacated.. it is NOT an instruction to do so

only a court order can force a tenant to leave - and as i said that can take 4-5 months

Cissi

clutton wrote: »

"" if your LL decides to give you notice, she could serve you with an S21 on Monday (18/10) and depending on your tenancy dates you may have to leave just before Christmas ""

sorry - this is simply not true... a Section 21 is a notice which tells a tenant that the landlord wants the property vacated.. it is NOT an instruction to do so

only a court order can force a tenant to leave - and as i said that can take 4-5 months

Point taken Clutton, sorry! I didn't mean to contradict your earlier post, what I should have said is that OP could possibly be given notice to leave just before Christmas - you're right that nobody can force them out without a court order. But as OP said that they want to leave before Christmas it's probably a moot point anyway.

I still think OP needs to clarify when they actually moved in though. It sounds as if it may have been in the last few months, and if so the LL may be within their rights to hold them to an initial 6-month term? I'm not sure how it works if they've been signing contracts for 1 month and 3 months though - presumably the LL can't evict them before 6 months but can they leave earlier?

tbs624

clutton wrote: »

if you live in england or wales.. then dont sign the new agreement whatever you do... you are now on statutory periodic tenancy and as others have said you only need to give one months notice to coincide with rent day

Under a SPA the rental period runs from the day after the expiry of the original Fixed Term and the end of the rent period does not always coincide with the "rent due" date.

tbs624

taking_time wrote: »

When we moved in she told us if we wanted to buy a house, we could move onto a month by month agreement, and that basically she would make it easy for us. She told us this three times (when we moved in, when we renewed and last week).

So you have had had two fixed terms and the latter one has lapsed onto a SPA (statutory periodic agreement), with all the same terms as the preceding FT, except for "determination" , ie, how/when the agreement can be terminated by either party? ( It's two months from the LL and one from the T, to time with the rental period unless the timing is agreed by both parties to be otherwise.)

taking_time wrote: »

It's a 3 month agreement, with us having to move out end Feb (unless she gets someone else), when we want to move out before Christmas. She has now basically thought about it, and that she could have no tenant over Christmas. She claims we charmed her, and that's why she's changed her mind.

I feel so angry about it, we've been told we have to sign or move out. I am 7 months pregnant, we told her this and that we wanted to buy. I am really just shocked she's effectively asking us to be out of pocket rather than her. The woman owns 3 houses and lives on a massive estate..

LLs are not philanthropists - they are running a business and she wants you to work under her business terms. Unfortunately, her business terms have to fall in with legal requirements on notice periods etc. Her LA seems also to not understand the law or else does understand to but wants to try to find a way around it by making you believe you have no option but to sign for a further FT.

Your rental period under the SPA runs from the day after the expiry fo the preceding FT, so is that ended say on the 14th of the month your rental period is the 15 - 14th of each subsequent month (assuming monthly rent paid).

If your LL wants you to go because you won't sign a new FT then she has to serve you with a S21 notice of intent to repossess before, in this example, the 15th November to take it up to mid Jan, and then on to court if you didn't go then.

Even if she did serve this there is nothing to stop you giving your own 1 month notice by 15 November to leave by 14 December.

She can't say to you "sign this or go now" and expect to be able to see that one through.

Do make sure that when you give your notice you time it properly - one day over and the next month's rent becomes due.

Keep repairs issues separate - you should always report all repairs issues in writing and keep a copy. If you report by phone initially , follow it up with a letter confirming your understanding of what was agreed. That way you knock out problems with people who cannot take and pass on a verbal message and you have a clear papertrail if you need to act on disrepair.

Have to say that your timings seem a little pressured - won't you be moving out around your baby's due date?

Planner

taking_time wrote: »

If she had not done this, we probably would have not bought, and would have stayed longer etc. We like the house and have tried to be good tenants (we let her have access at no notice etc).

I dont see what the fuss is?

You have said yourself that you probably weren’t going to buy and want to stay. Seems you just looking to cut your nose off to spite your face?

I was also surprised to see that you are suggesting that at 7 months pregnant and with less than 2 months before Christmas, when your current contract expires, you ‘may’ have moved into another rented property or indeed, even more far fetched, completed on a purchase of a property! Given your condition and the timescales involved is this likley?

Sign the contract and give yourself the security to enjoy Christmas with your new baby. Put the unlikely ‘what if’s’ and ‘we might’s’ on to the backburner for when you are actually in a realistic position next year to act upon them.