Fines to under 18's

LeeSouthEast

So can a 10 year old. Not that that is much help here!

Rossy.

Livingthedream wrote: »

Its's not a fine but at the moment an invoice, which if not paid could be pursued through the small claims court, or cancelled and a fare evasion case raised and pursued through a magistrates court.



Technically she hasn't broken any laws yet, she just got invoiced for the journey she didn't pay for + late fees.



Transport for London have the strictest and most current fare evasion bylaws going, they put Railway bylaws to shame. So if it's not a TfL tram you have less chance of been prosecuted.

I completely agree with the TFL comment. I work for TFL and they prosecute with ease and without remorse.

We use hit squads, Revenue combined with the police. If you are caught without a ticket and refuse to pay you WILL be arrested. Sounds daft but why should companies/operators provide a service for free

sassy_one

I understand that ignoring the notice may not apply in this case However, if it's First Great Western or Virgin Trains or similar, it would be safe to ignore it

Inactive

sassy-one wrote: »

I understand that ignoring the notice may not apply in this case However, if it's First Great Western or Virgin Trains or similar, it would be safe to ignore it

Do they run " trams " ??

opinions4u

In the end, it all boils down to one thing.

She did wrong, and should be made to put in right.

We can all argue about civil law, criminal law, different policies and legislation that apply to different operators, but there is a moral responsibility to pay the fine.

If that means a parent lending her the money to clear the debt, so be it. The parent should then ensure that their daughter repays that loan either over time with hard cash, or alternatively working unpaid in a local charity shop etc. If it means a handing back a fiver a week of EMA, or getting a paper round for a short period to find the money with, then so be it.

Trying to help her wriggle out of paying it (or the various accrued fees as a result of her burying her head in the sand)? Just wrong.

DKLS

Rossy. wrote: »

I completely agree with the TFL comment. I work for TFL and they prosecute with ease and without remorse.

We use hit squads, Revenue combined with the police. If you are caught without a ticket and refuse to pay you WILL be arrested. Sounds daft but why should companies/operators provide a service for free

I am pleased to hear it, its common theft, yet again we see on this site someone wanting to evade their responsibilities.

Young and naive my arris, just the usual "its not my fault" and ineffective parenting.
Sounds daft but I was brought up to be responsible for my actions.

JQ.

I think it's safe to say the tram is in question is in Manchester which is run by GMPTE, which I believe is part of the Council or some sort of QUANGO - definately not a private company, so I wouldn't be ignoring the fine. Plenty of press up here about people being taken to court for tram fare evasion.

As for the moral question - I think it's terrible you're even trying to evade the fine on behalf of a 17 year old, what a terrible example to set your daughter, who's not exactly a child. She did not buy a ticket and this is the consquence. The fine doubled because she ignored the first letter, again another consequnce. Pay her fine and then make her pay it off over a year.

Livingthedream

JQ. wrote: »

I think it's safe to say the tram is in question is in Manchester which is run by GMPTE

Lol, why didn't I think of looking at the OP's user name

sassy-one wrote: »

I understand that ignoring the notice may not apply in this case However, if it's First Great Western or Virgin Trains or similar, it would be safe to ignore it

Sassy that's very bad advice, if you ignore a First Great Western or Virgin Trains Unpaid fares notice then they treat you as a 'fare dodger' and cancel the Unpaid fares notice and prosecute under 'Fail to show a valid ticket' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (2005) which is a criminal offence.

Hammyman

Livingthedream wrote: »

Technically she hasn't broken any laws yet, she just got invoiced for the journey she didn't pay for + late fees.

Obtaining services by deception...fare evasion....

I know that in my small 11,000 person town that if you don't pay for a taxi fare you get a visit from the Police and in the next town there's regular court reports about people who've not paid taxi fares.

Livingthedream

Hammyman wrote: »

Obtaining services by deception...fare evasion....

I agree with what your saying in principal, however, railways/trams/buses are slightly different. If the revenue protection inspector thought for one moment that she 'Obtaining services by deception' he would have cautioned her and then taken her details before reporting the offender for possible prosecution.

This hasn't happened, she hasn't received any court summons or a visit from the Police, all she got was an fare invoice + late fees, so she hasn't broke any laws, Yet