GAS providers mistake, what are my rights?

hanniel

Hello, I was hoping to get some advice just to make sure my rights aren't being bamboozled!! Sorry this is a bit long but is necessarily so....

I moved into my Ground floor flat at the end of august 2007. In June of that year, as per the norm, rang utility providers to update info and set up direct debits etc so that we wouldn't be without gas etc.

I have had a meter reader call querying some info last week and to take a meter reading; he informed me that the info regarding my meter was incorrect. He told me that the readers who had come had assumed that the meter outside belonged to me without calling and checking with me directly (that meter actually belongs to the upstairs flat who are on a pre-paid meter) and that I was registered as downstairs and upstairs.

He also told me that the serial number on my meter didn't match any of the meters on either account for both flats.

He said that he would update the info and my bills would continue as normal.

I received a bill from British Gas for almost £1500 which seemed a bit much for a year considering that it is a 2 bed flat and generally we are quite good with our usage. This bill was based on the previous year which was in turn, was based on incorrect meter readings/or no readings. I called to query this and was told to call a couple of weeks later once my info had been updated.

I received a call this week from British Gas, requesting meter info again, including installation dates, serial number and readings. They also believed that we had our electricity with them also which, although it was some time ago, I'm pretty sure wasn't with them in the first place.

I was told that there would be a back dated amount to pay going back a year. However I'm wondering what my rights are as I provided correct details in plenty of time from when we moved. Although we haven't had a stream of meter readers there have been at least 3 occasions when I have personally let in readers to read our meter (I work from home as a designer so was available for subsequent readers to take an accurate reading).

We haven't updated any info ourselves and I believe that the meter readers who came took the wrong info and obviously my account has been updated, without my knowledge. All mistakes, lack of communication and misunderstanding lies directly at the feet of British Gas as far as I can see.
It's similar to me hosting a website for a client, messing up the paperwork and not setting up or updating the details they gave me and then coming to them 3&1/2 years later expecting them to pay for all the hosting I've done for them... it's my own fault!!

Any advice on rights and what to expect would be greatly appreciated! (Sorry if I rambled on a bit!)

Thanks
Hanniel

JasX

I think that you did everything right in pro-actively contacting them and seeking a bill they cannot bill you back any further than one year. Also now you know the correct meter you should be able to insist they base your back bill using your actual useage to estimate things rather than numbers they concoct you're not happy with.

In another post someone mentioned insisting they treat your current payments as 'payments on account' and reserve the right to get them to review things in 6-12 months when they will have a clearer picture of your actual useage, don;t know much about that myself but maybe someone else will be along who does.

Also not sure when the year counter actually starts, is it when the mistake is discovered or they finally get around to issuing a bill correctly. either way there is a one year limit working in your favour.

Cardew

What is not clear from your post is what bills - or direct debits - you have paid since you moved in just over 3 years ago.

Who do you pay for electricity if you are 'pretty sure' you were not with BG?

I don't see how the 12 month back-billing rule applies if you have been receiving bills and paying a Direct Debit for 3 years.

hanniel

Thanks JasX,

I've been told that they will back date it a year from the new reading which was on the 29th of September. However I don't know how they can do this acurately, even if they take it using our latest readings as a guide, it's winter and we often go abroad to visit family. Not sure how they can do it accurately.

So they can charge us a year even though they messed up and have no accurate way of knowing how much we used?

Cardew

You haven't answered about what bills you have received and paid(or direct debits paid).

I am getting the impression you have paid nothing?? Is that correct?

hanniel

@cardew
When we bought the flat we called BG to update the details, as you are supposed to. At that time I also set up a direct debit payments. About 95% sure that our electricity bill was with another supplier but it was 3 & 1/2 years ago! BG said they thought our electricity was with them but it isn't it's on account with another supplier has been for some time. To be honest, we set up all our bills on DD and use either e-billing or an online one bill service. Unless notified otherwise via letter, email or phone that there is an issue,we see an abnormally large amount of money debited from our account, or something goes wrong with our supply we just ensure that there is money to cover the DDs set up. As far as i can tell no DDs were taken as the meter they set me up on was a pre-pay meter.
The latest I can get from them is that I've been registered as the owner of the flat upstairs and as well as my own but on both accounts there is just one meter which is upstairs pre-pay meter.
Didn't give them this meter and have had my meter read before, although they cannot find my meter serial registered anywhere nationally.

All I want to try and establish is whether I'm liable for back-pay and what's the most they can charge me for? As we did all we were supposed to (I don't think assuming that a DD I set up was going through counts) and there is no accurate way to base a backdated reading.

hanniel

@cardew
Sorry started replying but actually working as well, late deadline, so my replies will be slightly delayed as you will see from my previous posts.

Cardew

So, if I understand correctly, you haven't paid for gas or electricity(not sure of the latter) for over 3 years?

You never had a bill in those 3 years and you never noticed that the Direct debits you 'set up' (how and for how much?) had been deducted from your bank account?

I might have been easier if you stated at the beginning that you hadn't paid anything for gas and electricity, they have now discovered about gas and at a later date, the same situation for electricity might also be discovered.

Quite frankly your opening post sounds disingenous! Why not ask 'what can I get away with' instead of all the patter!

The correct position is that you can be charged for the whole period you have been in the flat. The Gas and Electricty Acts(of Parliament)are quite specific that when you move into a property and use gas and electricity you have entered a legally binding contract.

The Billing code does indeed state you can only be back-billed for 12 months where the company are at fault. However it specifically excludes the situation where new occupants move into a property and don't take reasonable measures to contact suppliers and pay for services.

I take it you have no written copies of your correspondence with BG or anyone else? It is hardly reasonable to not notice you had no bills for 3 years. It is also hardly reasonable to not notice for 3 years that no direct debits had left your account.

However, given it now transpires that there is a mix up on your meter, and given energy suppliers are paranoid these days, they will doubtless only back-bill you for 12 months.

As you say, it is difficult to establish how much that should be(especially as you go abroad in the winter!!) whatever they try to charge you, I suspect you will maintain it is unfair!!!

Joyful

It also sounds as if your property may have been originally one and split into 2. If this is the case then the person who did the conversion did not update the National database to show an extra meter.

If the above is not correct it still sounds as if the database that BG will have got the information from is incorrect. If you had been proactive in checking your bills this would have been brought to their attention and rectified much earlier. In this situation you could be back billed from the start. If they have offered only to bill for 12 months you have been lucky. They will allow you to set up a DD over 12 months to pay the balance and ongoing consumption.

As you were putting an amount in an account for 3 years you would surely have noticed if there was credit building up? If it is still there clear off the balance and starting afresh would be my suggestion.

Now that it is with an escalation team they will get the Database updated so this situation will not arise again.



PS

I think you need the title amending as it was not the gas providers mistake as they had no way of knowing unless you told them.

hanniel

WOW. I forgot how much I love forums!!
@JasX thanks for your help.
@Cardew, thanks for the info, although I think you want to start some kind of forum fight... sorry, just don't have time for it.
@Joyful, thanks I think a lot of what you are saying is along the right lines. Although I still may keep the title.

There are actually 2 parties looking into it and I have been offered different info with regards to what I need to pay one said that they will look at when my meter was installed the other has said 12 months which is why I posted on the forum in the first place. My estimate for the coming year is £1500 which seems a lot for a 2 bed flat, however if that is the estimate does that mean I will have to pay a minimum of £3000 to BG this year and possibly over £6k which seems extraordinary considering they do not even have a correct meter reading to base an estimate on!!

Can I make it clear, I am not trying to get out of paying, I thought I was just asking what I could reasonably expect to happen and be charged and once the meter reader came and told me what had happened I was the one who called BG when I received a Bill for £1500 for the next year 2 days later and was told to call back in 2 weeks once my info was updated. It was me that called the escalation team not the other way round. The only call I had from BG was requesting meter readings and info updates.

I provided correct contact details when I transferred account over to my name and set up a DD to make a payment. As far as I am aware that is the correct procedure.
Had meter readers come and check my meter. I would assume that part of their job would be to ensure all details are correct.
@Cardew You seem to be a little stuck on our 'electricity' we haven't had a problem with our electricity it's not with BG as I have moved it to other suppliers. The '95% sure' meant that I am almost 100% sure that it wasn't with BG to start with.

Every bill statement and invoice I have, even for my business, is done by paperless means. We have one account from which everything comes out, as long as there isn't money issues with that account meaning that a DD will fail, I assume that all is in order. The gas supply has never been an issue and I do not think that I am to be blamed for not noticing if the relatively small amount that leaves my account specifically for gas, amongst the numerous other debits and credits has gone. @Joyful, the meter that was linked to my account was a pre-pay and was being paid by the upstairs flat, so actually there has never been a huge build up of credit, however if I looked closer at the details and not at just the amount I may have spotted the inconsistencies, but as I said before I only query accounts when there is a specific issue.
For example we had an unexpectedly huge bill from Thames Water after we had a meter installed which I queried and it turned out was based on an estimation and not our actual reading.
The phone stopped working and I called to find out if all was ok with our cable services account.
They were all occasions when something went wrong to draw our attention to the service. Apart from these situations if my services ain't broke, I assume that there is no need to fix them.

However despite all of that I don't think the blame falls primarily with us, we provided the correct info at the time of moving in, which they have details of when the account was set up in my name.
We didn't do anything to disrupt, abuse or break the terms of our contract. They had readers read the meter and didn't use due dilligence (ask why there are 2 bells, 2 flats but only 1 meter??? or why the meter they were reading didn't match up to the original details), in fact only when 1 reader did use due diligence and actually knocked on my door to find out if the meter was mine did the matter come to light.

Although what I have found out is still sketchy and it is still being investigated by advocates at BG, another cause of the problems could be, they are still not sure, that the meter was exchanges back in 2003 and the National Grid didn't register the new serial correctly or at all as they cannot find my actual serial number anywhere.

As of a phone call literally 10mins ago, my details still haven't been updated and I am still registered with the 1st floor flat!

Anyway just so I'm clear about the position I'm in. I should expect to, possibly, be charged 12 months back-dated and I need to wait and see how they propose to estimate this amount.

Thanks!

sporty_han26

I think you did everything right. If you are still not sure go to Ofgem and Trading Standards for help.