It is like a war

Big_O

I take your point, but one lunatic with what was by most accounts a failed nuclear test with no means of delivering it even if it did work is rather preferable to a super power with 5,000 missiles tipped with 16 warheads each 1,000 times more powerful than Kim's - even if it did work.

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw061009_2_n.shtml

Jolinar

Big_O wrote:

I take your point, but one lunatic with what was by most accounts a failed nuclear test with no means of delivering it even if it did work is rather preferable to a super power with 5,000 missiles tipped with 16 warheads each 1,000 times more powerful than Kim's - even if it did work.

thousands of warheads just like the USA has.....that plus a lunatic in charge

Anyway back to the original topic I look at my neighbours remortgaged to the hilt with their lovely new cars outside and my clapped out old but reliable banger next to them and chuckle, once upon a time I would have been bothered but now I just feel sorry for them because of the mess they are undoubtly in. The tell tale sign was they didn't jet off for the usual family holiday this year. I like being different now, I hate the consumerism rat race people are caught up in and I'm glad I'm well out of it. People think I'm odd for not having a credit card.... think they are mad to have one and not pay the balance off every month

nrsql

Big_O wrote:

I take your point, but one lunatic with what was by most accounts a failed nuclear test with no means of delivering it even if it did work is rather preferable to a super power with 5,000 missiles tipped with 16 warheads each 1,000 times more powerful than Kim's - even if it did work.

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw061009_2_n.shtml

Unfortunately a lot of people have a vested interest in spreading fear. It helps governments introduce controls, helps defence spending and contracts, sells newspapers, ...

Big_O

Okay, that IS one thing I'm rather grumpy with about today's society - the climate of fear being engendered - 'We need ID cards to protect us', 'CCTV to protect us', 'internet sex monsters coming to carry away our kids', the nanny state constantly on our backs... Gah! I blame the media more than the government though.

But that and global nuclear politics aside...

I think what I'm trying to say is that the modern age rather an improvement on the past than those who think 'it was better in my day' suggest. Just trying to keep a sense of perspective, you know. I've heard the stories of the past and quite frankly I'm glad I'm living in the twenty-first century. Debt isn't something new, you know. At least we don't send debtors to the work house or Australia anymore! Although we'd probably get rather more debtors if we kept transportation as a punishment for debt today...

Zammo

Big_O wrote:

I think what I'm trying to say is that the modern age rather an improvement on the past than those who think 'it was better in my day' suggest. Just trying to keep a sense of perspective, you know. I've heard the stories of the past and quite frankly I'm glad I'm living in the twenty-first century. Debt isn't something new, you know. At least we don't send debtors to the work house or Australia anymore! Although we'd probably get rather more debtors if we kept transportation as a punishment for debt today...

I think that you need to get things into perspective. Our standard of living has been rapidly declining over the last 20 years or so. It's no good comparing it to the 40's and declaring that at least we're etter off than our grandparents. If we are to halt this steady decline then we need to get the government to address the issues now, not sweep them under the carpet until we are once again a society of renters at the whim of slumlords and factory owners.

Big_O

How are things worse now than in 1986?

Life expectancy is up, employment is up, access to education is up, access to information is up, equality for all is up, cost of manufactured goods are down ...

Kevicho

Let me see, some problems, NHS in debt and crumbling because idiots are charge?
Personal debt at record highs, IVAs were at record high last month.
I dont think education is for all these days, 3000 a year, plus living expenses, this either means high level of debts or only the rich being able to afford it.

I think crime is up, i dont care what the figures say, I think this government is useless on crime, now our prisons are full as well, wont be long before even more criminals are on the street.
I remember when i was a kid, people in general seemed a lot nicer, nowadays not so much.

I do however agree with the whole climate of fear, this however is making people do strange things, and bringing out a lot of racism

Dolly_Smith

in fact the 80's were the start of the 'mememe' society and I think we're reaping the rewards now!
capitalism is just as destructive as communism, it just makes people think they're in control...

savedup

Hi everyone

Excellent thread this - Cheers Pobby !

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed on this thread, we do seem to be drifting down this road of wanting to live like Posh + Becks - but without their income.

We live in a society where too many people are prepared to live now - pay later - except that for some 'later' never seems to come !

You know the drill - after the credit cards have been maxed out, get a cosolidation loan - wipe the plastic debt out- then start again. Then run up the cards again, then remortgage the house to wipe out the loans and card balances and start again - Sound familiar ?

In the meantime the government are quite happy to sit back and watch the GDP figure go up, House prices go up, consumer spending increase, company profits go up etc = Feel Good Factor !!

Banks are falling over themselves to lend money to grab market share and boost their profits. Money is often lent out with rudimentary credit checks to people who are sometimes in no position to afford it.
I have recently heard of some mortgage companies lending at 6 or 8 times income - on an interest only mortgage - to get the business.

It is this kind of behaviour that is fuelling the bad debts and ever higher house prices that we have experienced over the last few years

I accept that we are all responsible for our own actions - but you are fighting against messages from the media , where you are branded a loser if you don't have a nice house, car, designer clothes and a second home in France for good measure.

We have a country now, where in most households both partners HAVE to work , just to keep up with the debts, and the ever higher fuel bills, Council taxes etc.

Eventually this madness must end - and when it does the effects on the UK economy / housing market will be profound.

I would like to end on a more cheery note -
At least there will always be the M.S.E site to help these people when they finally get their L.B.M !!

It never ceases to impress me how this site has built a community of people who are prepared to spend time, sharing their experiences, to help other people they have never met.

It's like an oasis in the desert.

Well Done Martin - Your a bloody star !!**!!

dudleyboy

Hi. This is a great thread and a very interesting read.

I posted this link a few weeks ago but since it's on topic I thought i'd post it again. In my view, it really does sum up the influence on, and cause of, our consumer society - be warned, it does contain one (although pretty funny) occurance of the F word: http://youtube.com/watch?v=CltHNDhjtK8

As for today's economic, political and social climate, in some way's we're better off than previous generations and in some ways we're not.

As Martin recently said on BBC breakfast, for an individual to be able to raise a mortgage to buy a property nowadays they need to be earning at least £70,000 p.a. Personally, while i think i'm worth that , i doubt i'm ever going to earn it (tho i can dream ). The media does fuel our current state of terrorist paranoia (it used to be the IRA, now it's Islamic extremists/terrorists), and while it's not as bad here as in the US (I personally blame 24 hour rolling news for this - it's never off our screens!), truth be told, a threat does exist. The NHS is going to ruin, gun and knife crime is up, pensions are a shambles and i'll probably be in my late 70s before i get to retire.

It's not all doom and gloom by any means but rose tinted lenses do help to dilute the reality. Life may be good now, compared to when our parents were our age, but by the time we get to theirs I doubt things will look so peachy.