Will I be fined?

angelsmomma

I am a self employed avon rep and cleaner. I registered for national insurance and tax and filled in a self assessment form for 2008-2009 and sent it off. I received an exemption from NI and filed it away.

I realised a few days ago that I had not had a tax form for 2009-2010 so looked on the website for information on when it should have come and be returned by. I then rang up to request the form as it had to be in by the end of this month.

The man I spoke to has no record on me since 2004 when I last worked for an employer. I definately did register and filled in the first self assessment but this man said I did not and needed to do both years immediately. His attitude was that I must be lying.

I earned under the personal allowance so know that no tax will be due but will they fine me for this?

Thanks

missworks2jobs

Hmm.....they might do. but if they have no record of you then how can they fine you if technically you weren't registered-then you didn't need to fill a form out.

If you can i'd do everything online and print out the submission receipts. (Do this WELL BEFORE the deadline as the system can crash leading up to the deadline dates). If you do send them any paperwork its worth paying the extra pound or so to have it sent recorded delivery signed for so that you have proof it actually got there! (Again you can track this online and print it out).

chrismac1

Do not worry. Fines are only due if there is tax to pay. You may well get letters with £100 fines, but once you file your returns you'll get letters with a bill for £0 on them. HMRC like to keep postmen in jobs, my record is 28 letters to one client on one day each fining the client zero. I have a new client who "owes" £45,000 and am trying to figure out a way of getting HMRC to cancel this erroneous bill without writing to him 450 times fining him nil.

When you filed your SA tax before you should have had a Unique Taxpayer Reference - 10 digits. With this number and your postcode you can log in to the HMRC database, or call them up and find out the position on your 09-10 return. If you file this online you have until 31 Jan 2011.

angelsmomma

chrismac1 wrote: »

Do not worry. Fines are only due if there is tax to pay. You may well get letters with £100 fines, but once you file your returns you'll get letters with a bill for £0 on them. HMRC like to keep postmen in jobs, my record is 28 letters to one client on one day each fining the client zero. I have a new client who "owes" £45,000 and am trying to figure out a way of getting HMRC to cancel this erroneous bill without writing to him 450 times fining him nil.

When you filed your SA tax before you should have had a Unique Taxpayer Reference - 10 digits. With this number and your postcode you can log in to the HMRC database, or call them up and find out the position on your 09-10 return. If you file this online you have until 31 Jan 2011.

The man did keep asking for this 10 digit number and got a bit stroppy when I said I did not have any paperwork from them so did not have it. I just got the form to fill in, filled it in and sent it back.

In my ignorance I did not copy it and did not realise I should have had a letter back telling me I didn't owe anything. I knew I did not earn more than my personal allowance so just forgot about it once it was posted.

They did send me an invitation to a bookeeping course for the newly self employed but it was miles away and I don't drive. I also started this work to be around if needed by my special needs son and could not be away all day (I just work locally for a few hours at a time)

Thank you for your help, I was getting really worried. I know ignorance is no defence.

angelsmomma

missworks2jobs wrote: »

Hmm.....they might do. but if they have no record of you then how can they fine you if technically you weren't registered-then you didn't need to fill a form out.

If you can i'd do everything online and print out the submission receipts. (Do this WELL BEFORE the deadline as the system can crash leading up to the deadline dates). If you do send them any paperwork its worth paying the extra pound or so to have it sent recorded delivery signed for so that you have proof it actually got there! (Again you can track this online and print it out).

The man did not give me the option of doing it online since I need to do two years. I will send it recorded this time. Thank you for your help

suso

angelsmomma wrote: »

The man did not give me the option of doing it online since I need to do two years. I will send it recorded this time. Thank you for your help

why do you need to do two years? you said in your first post that you had done the 8/9, the only other return due would be the 9/10 return

joanne_d_3

suso wrote: »

why do you need to do two years? you said in your first post that you had done the 8/9, the only other return due would be the 9/10 return

Because HMRC have no record of a return being filed by the op for 08-09 tax year !

The last record they have of her is as an employee in 04.

p00hsticks

angelsmomma wrote: »

The man did keep asking for this 10 digit number and got a bit stroppy when I said I did not have any paperwork from them so did not have it. I just got the form to fill in, filled it in and sent it back.

But wouldn't you have had to put the number on the form you filled in ? As this is what they use to identify you, if it wasn't on the form it might explain why it appears to have gone astray.....

angelsmomma

I have been sent three seperate letters now with two self assessment short forms two tax return forms one letter telling me I have to do tax returns from now on.

None of these forms has instructions on which I need to fill in or how to fill them in. I have 6 working days left to get this sorted out.

I will just have to take the day off tomorrow and take the forms into the tax office and perhaps they can help me fill them in there and send them to the other office by internal post.

What a palaver this is, however the good news is none of the forms mention a fine. Thanks for your help

Dave101t

spend your 6 working days registering for online, then you have 3 more months,

once they ask for self assessment, they ask for it forever, they never stop despite me being back in paye for 3 years!
ive lost all my paperwork but im registered online so i will reset my info then just check my march wage slip and use that if i cant find my p60.

most important...dont worry. you have a paper trail showing your attempt and their crapness. this will go in your favour if there was a fine, which there wont be.

jimmo

I haven’t read the whole thread but see you are still panicking so will go for a comprehensive answer and apologies if I duplicate anything already said.
Stop panicking. There is nothing to worry about.
The first good news is that you have your National Insurance correctly sorted.
The second good news is that if you are not liable to tax there cannot be a fine or penalty.
Before the Contributions Agency became part of the Inland Revenue a person who became self-employed was required to notify both departments but the rules were completely different.
Believe it or not, they are still completely different and the fact that you have the Nation Insurance sorted out means we can concentrate on the Income Tax aspect only.
Your first potential offence is “Failure to Notify Liability to Income Tax”
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/chmanual/CH71160.htm
You are not liable to Income Tax and so you cannot possibly have failed to notify.
The second potential offence is a failure to submit an Income Tax Return within the time limit imposed by the return itself.
However, the penalty for that is limited to the amount of your liability.
If your liability is nil the maximum penalty is nil.
Whilst you have spoken to HMRC it seems certain that as they had no records for you they could not possibly have issued Returns to you yet.
If you do receive Tax Returns you will have to complete them but, apart from that there really is nothing to worry about.