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Notice with an expired contract?

Alisha2008
Posts: 1,155 Forumite


Hi, we've been renting a house for 2 years, but the initial contract expired on Sept 09, and the landlady didn't say anything about a new one. We continued paying as we have a good relationshipt with her and didn't think it was a problem.
But now we are leaving and we don't know how much notice we should give, the initial contract says 60 days after the first 6 months, but is that still valid? We would much prefer to give only 30 days,as we've just bought a house and wouldn't want to pay mortgage+rent for 2 months..
Would it be possible to give only 30 days..?
But now we are leaving and we don't know how much notice we should give, the initial contract says 60 days after the first 6 months, but is that still valid? We would much prefer to give only 30 days,as we've just bought a house and wouldn't want to pay mortgage+rent for 2 months..
Would it be possible to give only 30 days..?
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Comments
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Assuming the property is in England or Wales, you have a periodic tenancy which automatically happens when a fixed term contract expires. It is fairly common for landlords to issue a fixed term tenancy agreement and then let it roll into a periodic tenancy.
The tenant is still obliged to pay rent even when the original contract lapses! All terms and conditions under the original contract continue, with the exception of how the tenancy can be bought to an end.
This requires the tenants to give the landlord one month's notice timed to expire with the rental period (if the rental period is monthly), as laid down in housing law which supercedes any clauses in the contract. The Shelter website gives a good description about this. Make sure you put it in writing, keep a copy, get proof of posting.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/ending_a_tenancy_or_licence/ending_a_periodic_agreement
Therefore 30 days is not acceptable unless the landlord consents to it. Some landlords and their agents aren't very knowledgeable about housing law and how this supercedes non-enforceable clauses in their contract, it's a complex area, so the ignorant ones will assume what's on the contract is the driving force whereas it is housing law itself that dominates.0 -
Thanks for your quick reply, but reading that link says that it's 30 days notice? Why do you think is not acceptable?0
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What is your rental period according to your contract, is it monthly? When did your contract start (specific dates) and when are you oliged to pay your rent (specific date and period)? You can issue the notice whenever you like but its timing the expiry with it that's the main thing. I don't see anywhere on that link that says you can submit 30 days notice from any point during your tenancy. Where does it say that? Until you answer the questions about your rental period and contract dates, no one on this forum can guide you.
" If your agreement is periodic (ie rolling from week to week or month to month), you normally have to give at least four weeks' notice to end it, or a calendar month if you have a monthly tenancy. The only exceptions to this are:- If your landlord agrees to accept a shorter notice period (see above) or agrees that someone else can take your place (see below).
- If you are an excluded occupier, in which case the amount of notice you have to give will depend on whether you have a tenancy or license agreement. Working out whether you have a tenancy or license can be quite complicated, especially if you don't have a written agreement. Get in touch with an adviser to check your rights if you can't agree a date that both you and your landlord are happy with. Use our directory to find a local advice centre.
- If you pay rent less frequently than monthly (every three months, for example) - if this is the case, you have to give notice equivalent to a rental period.
Here is another description of how to issue a notice to quit
http://www.housinglaw.org.uk/NTQ.htm
To be valid at common law a NTQ must satisfy two conditions:- Correct Length: The NTQ must be of the correct length; this will normally correspond to the period of the tenancy. Hence, a weekly tenancy requires at least one week's notice, a monthly tenancy requires a month's notice, etc. There exists two notable exceptions to this rule: Firstly, a yearly tenancy requires only a 6 month NTQ; secondly, the parties may contract to a differing length, either greater or lesser than the normal period.
- Expires on Correct Day: The NTQ must be expressed to expire on the correct day. The correct day is either at the end of the current period , or on the first day of the subsequent period; (the ‘period' being the length – weekly, monthly, yearly or otherwise – of the periodic tenancy in question.
Example:
NTQ of a weekly tenancy beginning on Monday should be expressed to expire on Sunday, or the following Monday
NTQ of yearly tenancy beginning 12th November should be expressed to expire on 11th or 12th of following November
- Correct Length: The NTQ must be of the correct length; this will normally correspond to the period of the tenancy. Hence, a weekly tenancy requires at least one week's notice, a monthly tenancy requires a month's notice, etc. There exists two notable exceptions to this rule: Firstly, a yearly tenancy requires only a 6 month NTQ; secondly, the parties may contract to a differing length, either greater or lesser than the normal period.
- Expires on Correct Day: The NTQ must be expressed to expire on the correct day. The correct day is either at the end of the current period , or on the first day of the subsequent period; (the ‘period' being the length – weekly, monthly, yearly or otherwise – of the periodic tenancy in question.
Example:
NTQ of a weekly tenancy beginning on Monday should be expressed to expire on Sunday, or the following Monday
NTQ of yearly tenancy beginning 12th November should be expressed to expire on 11th or 12th of following November -
A periodic tenancy of a dwelling-house must also satisfy two further requirements:
- The NTQ must be in writing and contain certain prescribed information
- The NTQ must be expressed to expire no earlier than 4 weeks from the date of its service. This has effect primarily on weekly (or fortnightly) periodic tenancies, as any other length will necessitate a notice period greater than the 4 week minimum.
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Hi, the rental period is monthly and we pay the 4th of every month. Started the 4th Sept 08 and ended the 05 Sept 09.0
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Alisha2008 wrote: »Hi, the rental period is monthly and we pay the 4th of every month. Started the 4th Sept 08 and ended the 05 Sept 09.
Get this double checked with Shelter or other experienced posters but this means that if you serve notice today, the tenancy will end on 03 or 04 December as you've missed the rental period to bring it to a close in November.
As per the earlier info I supplied (though I edited my post so we cross-posted) , in order to have it ended in early November, you'd have had to submit your notice in early October before the rental period so you've just pipped this by a week.0 -
No rental contract would be for a calender month plus two days as you've described. If the rental period commences on the 4th of the month it would expire on the 3rd. i.e. one month inclusive.
You need to be careful about how you serve your notice because if you don't get the last day right you could be liable for an additional month's rent.0 -
Alisha2008 wrote: »Hi, the rental period is monthly and we pay the 4th of every month. Started the 4th Sept 08 and ended the 05 Sept 09.
If the tenancy commenced on 4th Sept, then it expired on 03 Sept as that's a full year, automatically becoming a periodic agreement which takes place when a new contract is not signed.
Try to negotiate an earlier leaving date with your landlord, as they may be prepared to accept a shorter notice period, or negotiate a rent arrears repayment schedule if you can't afford the second rental payment. Some landlords consent to an earlier surrender on condition they find a new tenant to take over the tenancy and expect the tenant to pay the rental in the meantime. However, you will be obliged to pay rent until early December if the landlord does not consent to this, and they don't have to.0 -
Thanks a lot.
It's probably the 3rd, sorry. I don't have the contract here now, I read it yesterday night at home...
We'll keep this in mind, we still don't know when we'll get the new house, so we are ok for the moment, but wanted to know what was the right thing to do.
Also with the Christmas period coming, it makes everything a bit more complicated.. we would like to avoid moving in Christmas if possible.
Again, thanks for your help.0 -
Hi again,
I contacted my landlady today and she insists it's 2 months notice, she says that we are "statutory periodic tenants which means that the original terms of the lease still apply."
I've been reading the Housing Act today and I don't think it's true, can anyone confirm this? How can i prove it to her? I don't want to go to court about this issue...
Thanks again0 -
Alisha2008 wrote: »Hi again,
I contacted my landlady today and she insists it's 2 months notice, she says that we are "statutory periodic tenants which means that the original terms of the lease still apply."
I've been reading the Housing Act today and I don't think it's true, can anyone confirm this? How can i prove it to her? I don't want to go to court about this issue...
Thanks again
If you have been reading the housing act then you can quote the clause to your LL which directly contradicts what they have said.
Hint Hint Hint...try looking in Section 5
So you have to serve notice before the 4th December to leave on the 3rd January.
You have to serve notice before the 4th January to leave on the 3rd February.
Etc etc etc0
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