NHS dentistry and subtle ways they make you pay for private treatment

welshdent

enzymatic action would, I would have thought ... reduce calculus build up not increase it. Calculus is mineralised plaque and those minerals come very often from saliva, hence the common sites for calculus being lingual to the lower anterior teeth and buccal to the upper molars - salivary gland ducts. If there is no plaque then calculus can not form as it needs that basic scaffolding to be there.

theheathen

welshdent wrote: »

enzymatic action would, I would have thought ... reduce calculus build up not increase it. Calculus is mineralised plaque and those minerals come very often from saliva, hence the common sites for calculus being lingual to the lower anterior teeth and buccal to the upper molars - salivary gland ducts. If there is no plaque then calculus can not form as it needs that basic scaffolding to be there.

And you'd be flat out wrong...

http://dentistry.otago.ac.nz/research/oralmicro/pearcee.html

Educational standards in this country really have gone right down the drain.

Inigo_Montoya

On a related issue is there much difference in the quality of work done by a hygentist charging say £25 as opposed to one charging say £80 ?

Im not totally against paying for a hygentist occasonally as long as they do a better job than a dentists basic scale & polish

Ideally I'd like to be able to get a basic dentist scale & polish (when clinically needed as is my right) with maybe the occasional trip to a hygenist for a more thorough clean

welshdent

theheathen wrote: »

And you'd be flat out wrong...

http://dentistry.otago.ac.nz/research/oralmicro/pearcee.html

Educational standards in this country really have gone right down the drain.

flat out wrong? You quote me one person of whom I personally have not heard of - type his name in with periodontology and get 1 article .. about caries ... type in other names and wow .. loads. .. and I am flat out wrong?

It isnt calculus that causes periodontal disease and gingivitis anyway. Its the biofilm that is harbours ... the bacteria. Papers have shown that calculus when kept clean can in fact be present without signs of gum disease.

You will also find that calculus IS mineralised plaque regardless of what you think about random enzymes.

theheathen

welshdent wrote: »

flat out wrong? You quote me one person of whom I personally have not heard of - type his name in with periodontology and get 1 article .. about caries ... type in other names and wow .. loads. .. and I am flat out wrong?

It isnt calculus that causes periodontal disease and gingivitis anyway. Its the biofilm that is harbours ... the bacteria. Papers have shown that calculus when kept clean can in fact be present without signs of gum disease.

You will also find that calculus IS mineralised plaque regardless of what you think about random enzymes.

I never suggested otherwise. I simply stated that specific enzymatic activity in an individual's mouth can greatly increase the liklihood of calculus formation. Here's some more research...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCQQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjdr.sagepub.com%2Fcontent%2F41%2F1%2F327.full.pdf&ei=xiSzTMuaFcyy4AaupsTjBg&usg=AFQjCNFQxkL3cWN_OMKW1AqKN5uQF55EuQ

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7GHR-4FTYGF4-RT&_user=10&_coverDate=09/30/1959&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1493378821&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=435970bc15991bc36062226eb2175a81&searchtype=a

5 minutes research will yield many more. Pubmed is also replete with studies detailing such research.

welshdent

theheathen wrote: »

And you'd be flat out wrong...

http://dentistry.otago.ac.nz/research/oralmicro/pearcee.html

Educational standards in this country really have gone right down the drain.

p.s.

" Although calculus formation has been reported to occur in germ free animals as a result of calcification of salivary proteins, calculus usually represents mineralization of bacterial plaque."

Clinical periodontolgy and Implant Dentistry 4th Ed. Jan Lindhe.

What you have looked at is an academics RESEARCH interests. They are the ideas they are proposing. Do a medline search and quote me their papers ... then contact the british periodontal society ... and then see maybe if teaching standards are poor.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsperio.org.uk%2F&rct=j&q=british%20periodontal%20society&ei=iyWzTNmjNcHc4AbU8PnkBg&usg=AFQjCNHq8ji5cU4x10YAP-MwNWdCcpvDrQ&cad=rja

You are passing one theory off as absolute fact above all else.

Are you sure you arent angry richard?

theheathen

welshdent wrote: »

p.s.

" Although calculus formation has been reported to occur in germ free animals as a result of calcification of salivary proteins, calculus usually represents mineralization of bacterial plaque."

Clinical periodontolgy and Implant Dentistry 4th Ed. Jan Lindhe.

What you have looked at is an academics RESEARCH interests. They are the ideas they are proposing. Do a medline search and quote me their papers ... then contact the british periodontal society ... and then see maybe if teaching standards are poor.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsperio.org.uk%2F&rct=j&q=british%20periodontal%20society&ei=iyWzTNmjNcHc4AbU8PnkBg&usg=AFQjCNHq8ji5cU4x10YAP-MwNWdCcpvDrQ&cad=rja

You are passing one theory off as absolute fact above all else.

Are you sure you arent angry richard?

Again, I never suggested otherwise. You made a statement to the effect that enzymatic activity would not drive calculus formation. I simply commented that you were misinformed.

Who is 'angry Richard'?

welshdent

http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/41/1/327.full.pdf - nothing about enzymes definately forming calculus.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7GHR-4FTYGF4-RT&_user=10&_coverDate=09/30/1959&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1493378821&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=435970bc15991bc36062226eb2175a81&searchtype=a

Now you can ot give me a full paper BUT ....

"2. 2. It is suggested that enzyme activity in tooth deposits it correlated with a saponification process, ultimately leading to calcifications."

It is SUGGESTED.. clinical relevance? Absolute certainty?

But anyway we digress ... it isnt calculus that is the problem anyway

welshdent

theheathen wrote: »

Again, I never suggested otherwise. You made a statement to the effect that enzymatic activity would not drive calculus formation. I simply commented that you were misinformed.

Who is 'angry Richard'?

I am not misinformed. It is theorised by that chap and some research that is may be involved in calculus formation ... but that isnt a driving force. The driving force is presence of a nuclei of formation and a availablility of a substrate. At best these enzymes and the conditions they form would probably only modify rate

coldstreamalways

I'm Angry Richard