£28 + VAT per hour for manual unskilled labour

yogiberr

hiya,

We had some work done recently and asked for a breakdown of a bill into manhours and hourly rate.The broken down bill stated that the the company (who were recommended by our property management company) charged £28 + VAT an hour for manual unskilled labour!

We have a mangement company who have voiced "no opinion" over the rate...2 questions:

1) £28 + VAT an hour for manual unskilled labour...This is obsene. Where can i find out the average national cost?
2) They are a management company, surely they should be aware of the going rate, and advise the companies that they employ accordingly?


Ta for any replies.

yogi

corbyboy

What exactly was it they were doing?

Did the management company just recommend them or did they arrange the work to be done?

If it is the former why on earth did you not get a quote beforehand?

If it is the latter, do you have a limit to how much the management company can spend before it has to be authorised by you?

leveller2911

Hi Yogi,Its way over the top for unskilled,manual labour if you employed them direct. However you employed a company who probably have overheads to pay for.I use to sub contract for a company and we sometimes got price work. The price we got was usually 1/3rd of the price the customer paid my bosses. So if I got paid £8 per hour the company charged £24 per hour.It was all down to costs/overheads and profit margins.

I have my own workshop, making joinery and have the overheards to pay such as workshop rent, electric, business rates, public liability insurance, Workshop contents insurance etc etc etc and If I employ people theres also employers liability to pay for..I charge around £30-00 per hour to pay for all of this , mind you i'm skilled........You should always get full quotes for any work.

TBH I would always recommend employing unskilled labour direct rather than going through a company, Know it may not help now but for the future maybe something to remember..I don't think there are "National rates" any more, each company is different with varying overheads etc.....


PS with many apartment blocks the management company is also part of the same company that does the maintenance so theres a conflict of interest.You may need to do some digging....

nickj_2

you are mistaking the chrge per hour that the company charges to what the labourer actually gets paid or what he would charge if you had gone direct .
all companies have overheads that have to be paid for and that all comes out of your £28 , i get this from a few customers who question my day rate , they assume that this is what is going in my pocket , once i point out all my overheads they ususally seethe point

yogiberr

hiya folks,

ta for the replies.

#1 The work was unskilled manual labour ( clearing away debris, not asbestos, or anything like that)
#2 This is the building company that our management company always get quotes from (usually cheaper than the other..but in this case, the work was done, without prior consultation)
#3 Not sure about what the amount has to be before we're consulted.I'll look into this.
#4 I'm not mistaking it with the amount that the labourer gets paid, we ALREADY pay the management company to MANAGE our property.Therefore, they should be managing this issue.Yes the property management company have overheads, which we ALREADY pay them for.It's up to them to source the best value for money tradespeople, which for "clearing away debris", should be a no brainer.
#5 <<PS with many apartment blocks the management company is also part of the same company that does the maintenance so theres a conflict of interest.>>
This is not the case with this property management company, though they are keen to recommend the same company, amont the 2 or 3 quotes that we get.

SO, no we should NOT be paying 2 management fees.
We pay the property management company, who should "manage" the issue, by sourcing the best value for money tradespeople, which for "clearing away debris" should be a lot less than £28.

Property management companies are in a strong negotiating position, due to the amount of work that they can distribute.

client money --> propertymanagement (which manages the issue) --> building company or labourer.

At no stage do I see a need for a second tier of managegement (and of course, inflated fee).
The property management company are eiither capable or incapable of managing the property, if they aren't, then they should receive no fee.

Also, back to my original point, where is the list of hourly rates, based on skill?If a property management doesn't have that knowledge, how can they ever hope to offer value for money?It seems that, for them, they never need to justify anything.

Ta,

yogi

leveller2911

The fact that its "unskilled" work is a red Herring its not important. What you need to do is ask the management company for copies of the Quotes they received to carry out the work. If they have 1 quote only I would say you have a case as they should get at least 3 quotes for any work but if they can show 3 then I'm afraid IMO your on a sticky wicket.
Check to see how much the cost of any work carried out to the property before you are consulted is and if its less than the cost of the Labouring is then you have a case.You could try getting 3 quotes yourself for the same work and see what they come in at.

Lastly you won't find any list of "Rates" there use to be a list created by the unions to show how much certain manual skilled/unskilled should earn but this had/has no connection with how much a company can charge.Like I said in my 1st reply I use to earn £8 per hour in 1988 and the company charged the client £24 per hour for my labour. You may find the labourer was paid £8 per hour and the company kept the other £18-00 which is pretty normal.You may well find of the £18-00 they keep the management company may get a cut but proving it may be difficult......

When you go into Currys and buy a TV for £800 they buy for nearer £300 the rest is profit margin and costs .


Try checking with Companies House and see if the management company have any links to the maintenance company who carried out the work, in my area at least 3 management companies all run maintenance contractors ....


Good Luck ........

ormus

as above. any unskilled employee paid at say 8 quid per hour, would actually cost the company at least 14/16 quid per hour.
(the last figues im familiar with).
example,
20 yrs ago we charged other companies 26 quid per hour (skilled fitters). i think at the time we paid the fitters about 16k pa.

yogiberr

hiya,

The contractors originally sent the property management company a quote for £28 per hour for labour only.Then, When I forced them to query the bill, the contractor sent a breakdown of the bill, which included hire of a skip etc.Therefore, the first bill was false..This is at best shoddy, at worst illegal.Can I pursue them?

ta,

yogi

gravitytolls

Were you charged extra for the skip then? Or was the £28+vat supposed to include the skips?

Skips don't come cheap these days, nor does waste removal.

ormus

it might be a shoddy way of costing/making an invoice, but its hardly illegal!
from what youve said, you have no contract with the builders, your contract is wth the management company.
therefore youre not really in any legal position to query the builders on anything.

Russe11

Sounds about right, the labourers are probally supplied by an agency.

All the people inbetween the customer and worker have to earn money, the people at the tops want to earn more, results in the person getting hands so to speak getting a low wage, resembling poor value to the customer.