Advice on getting the right puppy and The Kennel Club. please

blue_monkey_2

I asked a friend who has a lot to do with dogs and has her own pedigree dogs, about how I get the right puppy and was not prepared for the onslaught I got in reply so I am asking here please.

I asked her how I found a reputable breeder - she told me to go onto the kennel club website and then call them. She also said I'd probably end up with dodgy papers and a pup that would bite my children. To be honest, she was ranting so much I lost track of half of it, she also said I needed get my name on a waiting list for puppies - but I asked her to ensure I did the right thing - and then she stormed off. I am too scared to go and ask her to explain what she meant so maybe someone else can explain to me please.

She also started going on about over-breeding for the bloodline, which I do understand, but surely a breeder is a breeder, they are breeding dogs to make money not for the love of it. I also understand about not getting from puppy farms.

And what about 'papers'? What papers are they and how would we know if they are false? If a puppy was registered with the kennel club, can we just call them to check?

And who and why do I call the kennel club - I looked under breed and it just gives names of people with land line numbers. Do I call them any time of day? And just what do I need to ask them? I've seen some advertised where they are taking deposits for puppies that are not even born yet and to be honest, that is not for us. I want to go and see the pup when it is old enough to go - how can you see the temperament of a puppy when it is not even born??

Anyhow, can someone else help me please. I know there are those of you that are not fans of people buying puppies but we want a puppy to fit into our house. We have children and we also have a dog of 18 months old - she loves all other dogs so we have no issue with this.

Thanks for any advice, I've been left feeling more confused. I did see the puppy I wanted but I feel too scared to even go and look at it now in case this woman finds out I did not call the kennel club first as she told me to, but I have no idea on what I am supposed to be asking for or what I have to speak to them about. The pup is KC regsitered, as are the parents - which are both owned by the breeder and they also have children so the pups have been handled.

I just want to do the right thing.

cyberbob

Sounds like your friend is one of the all pedigree dogs. breeders are the anti christ brigade.

blue_monkey wrote:

but surely a breeder is a breeder, they are breeding dogs to make money not for the love of it

No good breeders don't do it for money. In fact most will only just cover their costs. If you come across a breeder who is in it for the money walk away.

The best thing to look for is a Kennel club accredited breeder (it doesn't mean you cant look at non accredited just make sure they are KC registered)
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/acbr/Default.aspx

As these breeders aren't just registered with the KC they have to adhere to a lot tougher rules. When you find what seems like a suitable breeder contact them and talk to them. Expect them to ask you as many questions as you ask them. Also see if you can arrange a visit to see some of their dogs etc. They will tell you the sort of deposit etc they will require.

Any puppy expect to see both the sire and the dam and check they have had all applicable health checks (hip scores etc)

As for papers the chances of them being fake are low if your going for an accredited or registered kennel club breeder. The ones that are normally forged are from people selling in papers etc. So I wouldn't be to paranoid about.

Also be prepared to wait for the right puppy and the right breeder. We are adding a Cocker spaniel to our zoo next year. We found a suitable breeder in July and as they do not breed large amounts of litters we are having to wait until summer next year. It's worth it as the breeders ethics and breeding are top notch and we have already seen the sire and the dam so are very happy.

Hope that helps.

Ruffles_2

It can be a bit of a minefield when you are looking for a puppy. The Kennel Club webite is a good place to start though.

I presume you've chosen the breed you would like? My first port of call would be the breed club, contacts should be on the KC site and most clubs have a website. They will be able to point you in the direction of reputable breeders. Most breed clubs have more stingent rules and regulations regarding breeding than the KC and breeders will have to adhere to these rules to be part of the club.

Most good breeders have waiting lists for their pups. It is a good idea to visit the breeder before the pups are born. That way you can see how they keep their dogs, what condition they are in etc and decide if the breeder is the right breeder for you.

It is very hard to walk away if you don't like how the breeder opperates and there is a cute puppy sat in front of you.

Expect a good breeder to ask you as many questions as you ask them. Do you know what health tests are required for your chosen breed? Ask to see the papers with the results on. Find out why the mating has taken place and do they show/work their dogs.

If anything doesn't feel right then walk away. A good breeder is worth their weight in gold and will offer back up and support throughout the dogs life.

Have you been to any shows or if the breed you are interested in works, any working events? It is a really good way to meet people that are passionate about their breed. You will see a wide selection of dogs within the breed and might be able to narrow down what qualities are important to you.

blue_monkey_2

Hi Bob,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. This lady has a pedigree pup recently, which is why I was so shocked, she works with dogs so I thought she might be able to help, but regardless, I am too scared to go and speak her about it again.

I've just been on the KC website, it is not very up to date (pups from April) so that's helpful. If the pup is registered as KC will it have a 'number' on it's papers and if so, will I be able to call the KC and verify that number with them. When they are registered do they have to undergo more tests?

I did look at the KC website but (and here is what confuses me) the local registered breeders have 8 breeds of dog under the scheme and they are accredited. In my mind that seems more like breeding for money, but they are acredited. It is all so confusing. I just want a pup that has been bought up in the family home, not stuck outside in a concrete kennel and only made a fuss of when a litter is due to being in the ££. Those people cannot have that number of dogs in the family home can they? This is such a minefield.

KC also says to go onto a list but I do not want to go onto a list and be part of a litter being born because I want one - what if what is born I do not like or want (ie all boys)?

I do not want the dog to breed from - indeed, like our other dog, she will be spayed ASAP (we want another bi tch) and we just want her to be part of the family and get on with my other dog.

I feel like I need like a lie down. LOL. We only wanted another dog.

blue_monkey_2

Also to ask, because the mother is good natured, does it mean naturally that the puppy will be good natured too?

New_Collier

blue_monkey wrote: »

Hi Bob,



I do not want the dog to breed from - indeed, like our other dog, she will be spayed ASAP (we want another bi tch) and we just want her to be part of the family and get on with my other dog.

Don't give up! I do think two dogs are better than one.

Have you considered a rescue dog?

We have two dogs, got from a local animal shelter a few years ago. Both were innoculated, chipped and neutered, and both had been psychologically profiled by the shelter's dog whisperer. The psych information they provided was remarkably accurate. Several years on, the dogs, although very different, are an excellent match for our family, and for each other.
I know some people thing the only 'good' dogs are pedigrees - but our mutts are super family dogs and are healthy and fit. [hybrid / crossbreed rigor is what our vet called it!] But if you want a particular breed of dog - there are plenty of breed rescue centres out there too. You probably won't get the certificates but from what you say - you wouldn't need them anyway.

So why not consider a trip to a dog rescue shelter - the dog you really want may be there, needing a new home. And the small fee you pay will help them with their vital work.

Ruffles_2

blue_monkey wrote: »

I did look at the KC website but (and here is what confuses me) the local registered breeders have 8 breeds of dog under the scheme and they are accredited. In my mind that seems more like breeding for money, but they are acredited.

The scheme is open to abuse and there are plenty of breeders that are 'accredited' that I wouldn't touch with somebody else's bargepole.

We all have different things that are important to us when buying a puppy.

Some of my lists of wants are:

I want to see pups raised in the house
I want to see that the parents are first and foremost family pets and not just puppy making machines
I would be very dubious if a breeder owned both the dam and sire, very rarely do the best match of dogs within the breed live at the same place.
I want to know why the litter has been bred- All the breeders I know personally breed to better their lines, put an awful lot of thought and research into best lines and matches and only have a litter if they are wanting to expand their own pack. If they don't show or work their dogs then what is their motivation to breed? I'd dismiss answers such as nice temperament, good mum etc.
I want to see all possible health tests carried out for the breed.
Maybe putting my neck on the block slightly but if the breeder was advertising any more than 2 breeds I wouldn't even visit them.
Is the breeder still in contact with previous owners?
What age are the dogs? Is it a repeat mating? How many litters have they bred etc?
Are they knowledgeable about their breed?
I would also expect endorsements on my pup and to sign a contract stating I would have to get in touch with my breeder if my circumstances changed and I could no longer care for pup.

Like I said we all have our own 'wants' when looking for a breeder and different ethics we consider acceptable.

If I was in your position, I would start by talking to and visiting breeders to see if you agree with their ethics, if you like their set-up and go from there.

blue_monkey_2

Hi again, I am doing my housework while pondering and questions keep on coming to me.

If the puppies are KC registered, does this mean that they have to have required tests or do they just give them out. Do the parents have to be KC registered for the pups to be registered? Does the breeder have to be registered with the KC for the puppies to be registered with KC?

Sorry lots of questions.

Ruffles_2

The KC is basically just a dog breed registery. In the pups are KC registered, then it means both the parents are KC registered.

edit- No health tests have to be carried out for KC registration but I think some basic ones have to be carried out for the breeder to become accredited.

Raksha

With regards to the pups temperament - it's nature and nurture. Yes, a certain amount will be inherited from the mother (and to a lesser extent from the father), but the biggest influence on temperament will be the early socialisation the pup experiences during the first year or so of its life.

blue_monkey_2

Thanks again, I've just read through, it is so difficult isn't it, to make sure you made the right choice.

We do need a puppy to be honest, it has to fit into our home and because we have children of 7 and 6 most rescues will not entertain us. This is the problem we had when trying to get a dog last time. We have a huge garden and I am here all day but often it feels like you are trying to lease everyone else when making that descision on where to get a dog from.

I've been back to the KC website and the people I mentioned with the 6 breeds of dog, registered 6 litters with the KC in under 3 months - 3 of them in 1 week, so this is why I am finding the information I am getting so diffcult to understand. To me, this seems like a puppy farm yet they are accredited breeders.

I've taken the plunge, I have had my eye on some puppies for a few weeks and I have said to hubby that I need to know whether to disregard this litter but I wanted more information before I went. You have both been really, very helpful so thank you for this, at least I know what I am looking out for though.