Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

dotty12_2

Could someone tell me how to bookmark this page please? 
Cheers 

CIS

dotty12_2 said:

Thanks CIS again.
I agree that I am right and the council are not. The problem is their computer keeps sending me bills with the threat of court action if I don't pay up. There is no hostility between us, in fact when I call them they are really quite understanding. However they insist that I need to show them a document that will show the licensee relationship. I imagine it's just a box ticking exercise at their end. I'm very happy to do it to keep them sweet. My problem is I haven't a clue how to draw up the document. Hence my initial post hoping somebody could steer me to a website I could cut and paste from or paraphrase. Any ideas anybody? 

It's not a cut and paste job, I can tell you that much - it’s not that straight forward as there are various pieces of legislation and case law needed to make a full argument (council tax is a full area of tax law in itself). It's not something you'll find on the internet ready-made ( I can say that as I'm petty much the only person out here who deals with council tax issues as a business !).

Councils are frustrating (Birmingham City Council - I'm pointing at you today...) but they should not be trying to force people down a specific route. The issue you have here is that it is what it is at the moment and it's trying to move forward that causes the problems.

sterymixer

Hi, I was trying to change the council tax band for my apartment (it is currently C), I followed all the steps from the guide and all matched - the calculator was showing band B for three apartments in the same number as me (including mine), also half of the apartments are now band C and half B.
I filled it out the application recently (I was already staying here more than 6 months), this is the response I received:

"I refer to your proposal dated 27/06/2021 relative to the above property, which did not arrive in this office until 27/06/2021.   I regret that I am unable to accept your proposal as valid because it was not made within the period laid down by statute.   However, to ensure your valuation band is appropriate, a member of my staff has checked the accuracy of your band prior to issuing this response.   The result of this investigation is that in my opinion the banding of your property is fair and reasonable and is in line with the valuations of comparable subjects. In these circumstances I can find no justification for amending the existing valuation band.   If you disagree with my opinion however you may appeal to me in writing within 4 weeks of the date of this notice and you should include reasons in support of your appeal.   If no such appeal is received by me within the time limits specified, I shall treat the proposal as invalid and will take no further action in relation to it." Is there anything at all that I could do or it is already a lost case? Thank you

lincroft1710

sterymixer said:

Hi, I was trying to change the council tax band for my apartment (it is currently C), I followed all the steps from the guide and all matched - the calculator was showing band B for three apartments in the same number as me (including mine), also half of the apartments are now band C and half B.
I filled it out the application recently (I was already staying here more than 6 months), this is the response I received:

"I refer to your proposal dated 27/06/2021 relative to the above property, which did not arrive in this office until 27/06/2021.   I regret that I am unable to accept your proposal as valid because it was not made within the period laid down by statute.   However, to ensure your valuation band is appropriate, a member of my staff has checked the accuracy of your band prior to issuing this response.   The result of this investigation is that in my opinion the banding of your property is fair and reasonable and is in line with the valuations of comparable subjects. In these circumstances I can find no justification for amending the existing valuation band.   If you disagree with my opinion however you may appeal to me in writing within 4 weeks of the date of this notice and you should include reasons in support of your appeal.   If no such appeal is received by me within the time limits specified, I shall treat the proposal as invalid and will take no further action in relation to it." Is there anything at all that I could do or it is already a lost case? Thank you

No point in appealing the validity of the appeal if you submitted it more than 6 months after the date on which you became the occupier of the apartment.

House price indices or calculators are inaccurate so cannot be relied upon. You could ask the VOA why some of the apartments are in Band B, but you may get the response that they are in the wrong band and should be increased

sam1974_2

Does anyone know if the pre 1990 ‘Rateable Value’ of your house had any reflection on the way they banded for council tax ? 

My house had a Rateable value of 111.00 - which is still used for water rates and what  the community charge, or whatever it was called prior to council tax and poll tax, was based on. 

Very few sales on our street so hard to work out what 1991 prices would have been back then as all the neighbours had lived here for 50+ years and only recently started getting sold by their families when they’ve sadly passed away. 

lincroft1710

sam1974_2 said:

Does anyone know if the pre 1990 ‘Rateable Value’ of your house had any reflection on the way they banded for council tax ? 

My house had a Rateable value of 111.00 - which is still used for water rates and what  the community charge, or whatever it was called prior to council tax and poll tax, was based on. 

Very few sales on our street so hard to work out what 1991 prices would have been back then as all the neighbours had lived here for 50+ years and only recently started getting sold by their families when they’ve sadly passed away. 

Absolutely no connection whatsoever - the old RVs were based on 1973 rental values, CT is based on 1991 capital values. The RV was used to calculate the rates payable under the old well established domestic rating system. It was never used for the Community Charge (commonly known as poll tax).


If you can say why you think your band is too high, or how it compares with those of similar neighbouring properties, I may be able to give you further information.

sam1974_2

lincroft1710 said:

sam1974_2 said:

Does anyone know if the pre 1990 ‘Rateable Value’ of your house had any reflection on the way they banded for council tax ? 

My house had a Rateable value of 111.00 - which is still used for water rates and what  the community charge, or whatever it was called prior to council tax and poll tax, was based on. 

Very few sales on our street so hard to work out what 1991 prices would have been back then as all the neighbours had lived here for 50+ years and only recently started getting sold by their families when they’ve sadly passed away. 

Absolutely no connection whatsoever - the old RVs were based on 1973 rental values, CT is based on 1991 capital values. The RV was used to calculate the rates payable under the old well established domestic rating system. It was never used for the Community Charge (commonly known as poll tax).


If you can say why you think your band is too high, or how it compares with those of similar neighbouring properties, I may be able to give you further information.

Thank you. 

One of my elderly neighbours has the same Rateable Value for his water as I do - so was hoping that would help! 

His council tax banding is A, mine is C  🙄 All old terraced houses, built around 1865 with bits added on over the years. 

Elderly neighbours house is slightly smaller than mine as we’ve had a utility and cloakroom added downstairs - he lives a few doors away. 

My immediate neighbours is bigger than mine - an extension that’s took away half the garden! Band A. Sold recently, still a band A. 

Others in the street are a band B. Including one with a holiday let annexe 😳

If the bandings were done by a drive by, they all look the same size at the front so no idea how VOA work the bandings out.

Trying to get comparable’s to send to VOA for a revalue but it’s making my brain hurt as every house is similar but different bands 😕 and last thing I want to do is end up increasing the elderly neighbours bands as they’ve all lived here such a long time and don’t need the increased costs when they are in their 80’s and 90’s. 

lincroft1710

sam1974_2 said:

lincroft1710 said:

sam1974_2 said:

Does anyone know if the pre 1990 ‘Rateable Value’ of your house had any reflection on the way they banded for council tax ? 

My house had a Rateable value of 111.00 - which is still used for water rates and what  the community charge, or whatever it was called prior to council tax and poll tax, was based on. 

Very few sales on our street so hard to work out what 1991 prices would have been back then as all the neighbours had lived here for 50+ years and only recently started getting sold by their families when they’ve sadly passed away. 

Absolutely no connection whatsoever - the old RVs were based on 1973 rental values, CT is based on 1991 capital values. The RV was used to calculate the rates payable under the old well established domestic rating system. It was never used for the Community Charge (commonly known as poll tax).


If you can say why you think your band is too high, or how it compares with those of similar neighbouring properties, I may be able to give you further information.

Thank you. 

One of my elderly neighbours has the same Rateable Value for his water as I do - so was hoping that would help! 

His council tax banding is A, mine is C  🙄 All old terraced houses, built around 1865 with bits added on over the years. 

Elderly neighbours house is slightly smaller than mine as we’ve had a utility and cloakroom added downstairs - he lives a few doors away. 

My immediate neighbours is bigger than mine - an extension that’s took away half the garden! Band A. Sold recently, still a band A. 

Others in the street are a band B. Including one with a holiday let annexe 😳

If the bandings were done by a drive by, they all look the same size at the front so no idea how VOA work the bandings out.

Trying to get comparable’s to send to VOA for a revalue but it’s making my brain hurt as every house is similar but different bands 😕 and last thing I want to do is end up increasing the elderly neighbours bands as they’ve all lived here such a long time and don’t need the increased costs when they are in their 80’s and 90’s. 

If it is self contained the holiday annex should either be assessed for non domestic rating or exceptionally have its own CT band. 

It can take over 12 months before a band is increased following a sale. The VOA would know the sizes of the properties at the time the banding was done and this was passed on to the contractors who did the banding, however the VOA info may not have been up to date.


Yours may be overbanded the Band As underbanded, only the VOA would know and up to you and how keen you are to pursue this as to what you do next. 

sam1974_2

lincroft1710 said:

sam1974_2 said:

lincroft1710 said:

sam1974_2 said:

Does anyone know if the pre 1990 ‘Rateable Value’ of your house had any reflection on the way they banded for council tax ? 

My house had a Rateable value of 111.00 - which is still used for water rates and what  the community charge, or whatever it was called prior to council tax and poll tax, was based on. 

Very few sales on our street so hard to work out what 1991 prices would have been back then as all the neighbours had lived here for 50+ years and only recently started getting sold by their families when they’ve sadly passed away. 

Absolutely no connection whatsoever - the old RVs were based on 1973 rental values, CT is based on 1991 capital values. The RV was used to calculate the rates payable under the old well established domestic rating system. It was never used for the Community Charge (commonly known as poll tax).


If you can say why you think your band is too high, or how it compares with those of similar neighbouring properties, I may be able to give you further information.

Thank you. 

One of my elderly neighbours has the same Rateable Value for his water as I do - so was hoping that would help! 

His council tax banding is A, mine is C  🙄 All old terraced houses, built around 1865 with bits added on over the years. 

Elderly neighbours house is slightly smaller than mine as we’ve had a utility and cloakroom added downstairs - he lives a few doors away. 

My immediate neighbours is bigger than mine - an extension that’s took away half the garden! Band A. Sold recently, still a band A. 

Others in the street are a band B. Including one with a holiday let annexe 😳

If the bandings were done by a drive by, they all look the same size at the front so no idea how VOA work the bandings out.

Trying to get comparable’s to send to VOA for a revalue but it’s making my brain hurt as every house is similar but different bands 😕 and last thing I want to do is end up increasing the elderly neighbours bands as they’ve all lived here such a long time and don’t need the increased costs when they are in their 80’s and 90’s. 

If it is self contained the holiday annex should either be assessed for non domestic rating or exceptionally have its own CT band. 

It can take over 12 months before a band is increased following a sale. The VOA would know the sizes of the properties at the time the banding was done and this was passed on to the contractors who did the banding, however the VOA info may not have been up to date.


Yours may be overbanded the Band As underbanded, only the VOA would know and up to you and how keen you are to pursue this as to what you do next. 

Annexe has no separate council tax listed and doesn’t appear on business rates either, but yes it is self contained with a studio type lounge/bedroom, own bathroom and fully fitted kitchen. 

That’s handy to know it can take over 12 months, thank you.  The improvement indicator says no - so not sure if that means they know or not tbh. 

Do you happen to know, if I rang VOA would they tell me what details they hold about our property, or not?  Really just to check they have the right size, number of bedrooms, etc, before escalating it to anything official. 

lincroft1710

sam1974_2 said:

lincroft1710 said:

sam1974_2 said:

lincroft1710 said:

sam1974_2 said:

Does anyone know if the pre 1990 ‘Rateable Value’ of your house had any reflection on the way they banded for council tax ? 

My house had a Rateable value of 111.00 - which is still used for water rates and what  the community charge, or whatever it was called prior to council tax and poll tax, was based on. 

Very few sales on our street so hard to work out what 1991 prices would have been back then as all the neighbours had lived here for 50+ years and only recently started getting sold by their families when they’ve sadly passed away. 

Absolutely no connection whatsoever - the old RVs were based on 1973 rental values, CT is based on 1991 capital values. The RV was used to calculate the rates payable under the old well established domestic rating system. It was never used for the Community Charge (commonly known as poll tax).


If you can say why you think your band is too high, or how it compares with those of similar neighbouring properties, I may be able to give you further information.

Thank you. 

One of my elderly neighbours has the same Rateable Value for his water as I do - so was hoping that would help! 

His council tax banding is A, mine is C  🙄 All old terraced houses, built around 1865 with bits added on over the years. 

Elderly neighbours house is slightly smaller than mine as we’ve had a utility and cloakroom added downstairs - he lives a few doors away. 

My immediate neighbours is bigger than mine - an extension that’s took away half the garden! Band A. Sold recently, still a band A. 

Others in the street are a band B. Including one with a holiday let annexe 😳

If the bandings were done by a drive by, they all look the same size at the front so no idea how VOA work the bandings out.

Trying to get comparable’s to send to VOA for a revalue but it’s making my brain hurt as every house is similar but different bands 😕 and last thing I want to do is end up increasing the elderly neighbours bands as they’ve all lived here such a long time and don’t need the increased costs when they are in their 80’s and 90’s. 

If it is self contained the holiday annex should either be assessed for non domestic rating or exceptionally have its own CT band. 

It can take over 12 months before a band is increased following a sale. The VOA would know the sizes of the properties at the time the banding was done and this was passed on to the contractors who did the banding, however the VOA info may not have been up to date.


Yours may be overbanded the Band As underbanded, only the VOA would know and up to you and how keen you are to pursue this as to what you do next. 

Do you happen to know, if I rang VOA would they tell me what details they hold about our property, or not?  Really just to check they have the right size, number of bedrooms, etc, before escalating it to anything official. 

Yes, they should give you this info