Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

lincroft1710

Councils will not pay any interest on refunds as there is no legal obligation for them to do so.

kev1231

Can anyone explain to me why my v.t. appeal was dismissed when i had evidence of 16 comparables which the l.o even agrees are like my own ,they are all d bands .mine is e band i also have a sale of two comparables in 1991 ,one on the 3 april 1991 being well under the 88k ,the vt dismissed my appeal because 15 years previously my property failed a vt because of lack of comparables ,in fact none at all was used ,so the vt say tone of the list has been set for 15 years as e bands ,even tho all the e bands down our street went to vt at that time,proving that they did not agree with bandings . .so the vt dismissed mine on those grounds ,how is anyone going to win if the vt dont even aply there own regulations ,what is the point in going to all the trouble to find the statutory valuation date april 1991 date ,can anyone explain to me why ,this does not seem right.....HELP

lincroft1710

kev1231 wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why my v.t. appeal was dismissed when i had evidence of 16 comparables which the l.o even agrees are like my own ,they are all d bands .mine is e band i also have a sale of two comparables in 1991 ,one on the 3 april 1991 being well under the 88k ,the vt dismissed my appeal because 15 years previously my property failed a vt because of lack of comparables ,in fact none at all was used ,so the vt say tone of the list has been set for 15 years as e bands ,even tho all the e bands down our street went to vt at that time,proving that they did not agree with bandings . .so the vt dismissed mine on those grounds ,how is anyone going to win if the vt dont even aply there own regulations ,what is the point in going to all the trouble to find the statutory valuation date april 1991 date ,can anyone explain to me why ,this does not seem right.....HELP

Despite the evidence, the VT was not persuaded that they should reverse the decisions of previous tribunals. Some VT members are of the opinion that if a VT has decided a band for a particular house type, then that decision should not be questioned. Other members are quite happy to ignore previous VT decisions if they are persuaded by new evidence.

The VT have done nothing "wrong" in saying that Band E is still the correct for your home, even though you may think otherwise. VTs make their decisions based on evidence presented to them and it is their prerogative to decide how important each piece of evidence is to the appeal they are hearing.

If you think the hearing was unfairly conducted then you can ask for a review. However I'm ex VOA and do not recall any review request succeeding in the VT altering its decision, but they do happen in very exceptional circumstances.

kev1231

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Despite the evidence, the VT was not persuaded that they should reverse the decisions of previous tribunals. Some VT members are of the opinion that if a VT has decided a band for a particular house type, then that decision should not be questioned. Other members are quite happy to ignore previous VT decisions if they are persuaded by new evidence.

The VT have done nothing "wrong" in saying that Band E is still the correct for your home, even though you may think otherwise. VTs make their decisions based on evidence presented to them and it is their prerogative to decide how important each piece of evidence is to the appeal they are hearing.

If you think the hearing was unfairly conducted then you can ask for a review. However I'm ex VOA and do not recall any review request succeeding in the VT altering its decision, but they do happen in very exceptional circumstances.

Thanks for reply ,i think i can only appeal to high court if i have a point of law but im not sure what counts as point of law ,i dont understand how the vt can go on previous vt when no evidence was used so how does that stand?i have over 70 comparables two being on the 1991 date one being on 3 april 1991 would that be a point of law ,at my vt my l.o asked the vt not to take into acount a area that had some of my comparables in, he said that this area was not has good has mine so i showed the vt evidence that my l.o used at another vt he states that the area is a good one,how can he get away with moving the goal post,is this a point of law (l.o keeps chanbing his mind when it suits him) it seems that i have all the proof needed but still can not win and the vt only have a failed vt with not evidence used.dont get it.

lincroft1710

Hi kev

A VT review is not an appeal to the High Court, it is where the VT looks at the case again and decides if it should be reheard.

A point of law is where the interpretation of Council Tax law is in dispute.

You do not have the right of appeal to High Court as a disagreement on banding is not a point of law, which is what your case is all about. The VT is supposed to weigh all the evidence presented to it and decide accordingly. But if it seemingly behaves illogically by attaching more importance to evidence which seems weak or unsupported, it is not a point of law as there has been no misinterpretation of CT law. It may be poor judgement but it is not a point of law.

Both the LO and appellant taxpayer can question the validity of evidence presented by the other side or ask the VT to ignore it. Disagreement with the LO's behaviour or conduct of his case is again not a point of law.

Very, very, very few CT appeals have gone to HC, and I think they all concerned "granny annexes", basically where a property comprised more than one dwelling.

If the facts are exactly as you have presented them then it does seem that the VT may have reached the wrong decision. However there is very little opportunity in law for this to be changed. All you can do is ask for a review.

kev1231

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Hi kev

A VT review is not an appeal to the High Court, it is where the VT looks at the case again and decides if it should be reheard.

A point of law is where the interpretation of Council Tax law is in dispute.

You do not have the right of appeal to High Court as a disagreement on banding is not a point of law, which is what your case is all about. The VT is supposed to weigh all the evidence presented to it and decide accordingly. But if it seemingly behaves illogically by attaching more importance to evidence which seems weak or unsupported, it is not a point of law as there has been no misinterpretation of CT law. It may be poor judgement but it is not a point of law.

Both the LO and appellant taxpayer can question the validity of evidence presented by the other side or ask the VT to ignore it. Disagreement with the LO's behaviour or conduct of his case is again not a point of law.

Very, very, very few CT appeals have gone to HC, and I think they all concerned "granny annexes", basically where a property comprised more than one dwelling.

If the facts are exactly as you have presented them then it does seem that the VT may have reached the wrong decision. However there is very little opportunity in law for this to be changed. All you can do is ask for a review.

Thanks for reply, since finding out about a point of law ,ive been told by solicitor that my v.t was perverce ,has the eviedece the v.t used against me consisted of previous v.t where no evidence or comparable was used,the v.t also did not look at my evidence to support my claims of a certain area or the valuation location, even when i presented a statement that the l.o had used in evidence at a previous v.t that proved the l.o stated the location was a good one,then when in mt v.t ,he moved the goal post and said that the same location was not good, my proof of this was not taken into account ,nor can the l.o. provide me with a comparable of how my house and all his comparables was put in the e band when first built , council tax manual section 2 part three altering council tax list .3.11 new dwellings on estate; ,all houses was built after 1995 ,my comparables was built 1982 onwards at my v.t even the l.o agreed they are has good has you could get ,so in that case why was my estate not based on those houses which proves sale prices of 1991 and all those houses are d bands ,i was not told at any time i can have a review of v.t ,when i found out my appeal was dismissed( 20 dec) i called the v.t and spoke to the tribunal taking officer she said i could only appeal to high court /also spoke to my l.o and asked him what can i appeal to he also never mentioned a v.t review .now i find out about v.t review and told i have 14 days to appeal ..is this right and if so what about the christmas holidays i can get no information from anyone all closed xmas,if i aply for a vt review would that take eway my right to a h.c hearing has i only have 30 days to apply for that.I thank you for your reply and hope you can advise me on more . thanks lincroft

revolter

Hi MSE,
I live in a one bedroom co-op (social housing) flat in London. For 12 months I have been trying to get my Council Tax band D reduced on the grounds that other social housing flats in my street are in bands B and C. Of course the VOA refuse to accept my proposal and having taken until September to review my band told me I cannot appeal their decision. The VT say the VOA decision letter needs to specifically worded before they can accept my appeal.

My main issue is that the VOA are comparing my flat with private rather than social housing (e.g. council housing) properties. Is there way to challenge the VOA's false ascertion?

Thanks
Revolter

lincroft1710

kev1231 wrote: »

,ive been told by solicitor that my v.t was perverce ,

This may well be true, but did he suggest how you could have the decision reviewed in such circumstances.

nor can the l.o. provide me with a comparable of how my house and all his comparables was put in the e band when first built

The LO won't have this info, reference may have been made to 1991 sale prices, settled appeals comparison with similar houses, but it is highly unlikely that this was ever written down.

i called the v.t and spoke to the tribunal taking officer she said i could only appeal to high court /also spoke to my l.o and asked him what can i appeal to he also never mentioned a v.t review .

Having re-read VT Notice of Decision it seems there are more limited opportunities for a VT review than I remember, or it may be that some VTs loosely interpreted the the rules for review in the past.

what about the christmas holidays i can get no information from anyone all closed xmas,if i aply for a vt review would that take eway my right to a h.c hearing has i only have 30 days to apply for that.

Time limits take no account of public holidays. It may be my interpretation of the rules but I don't think you have grounds for a High Court hearing. Unfortunately this is getting complex and beyond my expertise, some legal points are being raised which if you are determined to take this forward may mean you need proper legal advice which won't be cheap. Even if you can appeal to the High Court, it can be costly even if you win.

Try contacting the VT head office and see if they can offer any advice.

lincroft1710

revolter wrote: »

My main issue is that the VOA are comparing my flat with private rather than social housing (e.g. council housing) properties. Is there way to challenge the VOA's false ascertion?

Thanks
Revolter

Unless you made an appeal within 6 months of becoming the occupier the short answer is no. As I don't know exactly what co-op housing is and how it differs from council or housing association built properties, it is difficult to advise. There may have been sales of both types which show a difference, but Band D does seem high for a 1 bed flat

vivatifosi

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Time limits take no account of public holidays. It may be my interpretation of the rules but I don't think you have grounds for a High Court hearing. Unfortunately this is getting complex and beyond my expertise, some legal points are being raised which if you are determined to take this forward may mean you need proper legal advice which won't be cheap. Even if you can appeal to the High Court, it can be costly even if you win.

Try contacting the VT head office and see if they can offer any advice.

Kev, if you are still reading I wanted to add my thoughts to lincroft's. Where I live, I won an appeal where there had been previous unsuccessful tribunals. Rather than going to the expense of the high court, you could still suggest that a neighbour who moves in and is within the six months goes to tribunal. If they then win and set a prescedent, your place would need to be re-evaluated. The VOA overturned the decision on the houses where the previous tribunal decision was unfavourable. IIRC these were the last properties that needed to be rebanded as the VOA had to return to the VTS and explain why their decision had changed. It may still provide an option for you though.

The other thing I would say is let your neighbours know what you are doing. A big part of our winning was having all of the neighbours sale information from the time of construction to sway the case. In my instance this involved using evidence that hadn't been used before that showed that the garages were outside of the curtilage and therefore shouldn't be included in the price. This isn't easy, but it is an alternative to the high court.