Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

CSL_2

guppy wrote: »

Hello,

Can't help with comparable houses, I'm afraid. The best option for finding sales evidence seems to be estate agent's adverts from 1991 newspapers.

You could always phone and ask to speak with the person dealing with your case and ask them to justify the banding to you. If there are no comparable houses, what are they basing it on?

They can't tell you specific addresses, but there is nothing to stop them giving generalised information about their evidence if you push for it.

Have you tried looking at values of flats that offer living similar space to your property? I expect you'd have to add a bit on since yours is a freehold house though...how much value to add is a matter of opinion...

Good luck

Dear Guppy,

Many thanks for the info.

I have had long conversations with the Lambeth VOA and they will not accept details of a flat or appartment. They stressed that I must compare like with like. They are very tough and insist on me producing details of other very similar ONE BEDROOM Semis. Still think that my only hope is to find about another 4 of these ONE BEDROOM Semis for comparison purposes. Have found lots of terraced Bellway 2 Bedroom houses in SW17 but they are all in Band D and of no use.

Bellway(South East) Ltd were no help at all. They could not find any records of what they built in the 1980s.

Photo link added 19th Nov 2007:-

http://journals.aol.co.uk/clivesteuk/convincing-the-voa-listing-offic/



Best wishes,

CSL
18th November 2007

Quality_Time

vivatifosi wrote: »

Hi Taffyscot,

I'm not an expert on what you are asking about, but I think there are four potential elements to your question that your neighbour may be able to get some help with. I hope that you get answers to these, because you are just the reason many of us come on these boards: to try and do something tangible to help people who are in much worse situations than us. If you haven't already done so, you may also need to think laterally and post the issue more broadly on some other MSE forums that deal more with the charity/benefits side.

The four issues that I would consider looking at are:

* Council tax rebanding
* Council tax rebates
* Appropriate housing
* Other funds that may help

I'm hoping that CIS will answer the part on rebates, because they are an absolute star at answering such questions and will give you the best and most accurate answer.

In terms of the banding, there are two issues. Firstly, is the flat in habitable condition? The second is how does the banding compare to those of the neighbours? I don't know about Scotland, but in England there is a baseline of condition that is assumed in terms of the property. Essentially if the property is habitable then its worth is broadly assumed to be that of the other properties, all things being equal. You could try speaking to the VOA and asking for advice on this. You should also double checking the other bands in the building and/or similar. Finally on this point, is there any element of disabled conversion as this may also help in your favour as that can be looked favourably upon in reducing banding.

If the location is not habitable, or barely habitable, then that brings me on to question 3. Is there anything that local authorities or disability charities can do to bring her home up to scratch and make her life (in the non-financial sense) more comfortable? It must be miserable living in the conditions that you describe, and there ought to be funding out there - either government or charity - to bring her place up to scratch.

The final issue is trying to get additional funding. I have worked with my aunt who was in a similar situation after an industrial accident that meant she lost her job and home. It took a lot of time and a lot of red tape, but we finally got her DLA mobility and care components after going to tribunal (Social Services originally turned her down). We have also found other local funds that she is entitled to that make her life easier from charities etc. The CAB is brilliant at helping with DLA forms etc, but it is also worth finding out who the local disability advocacy groups are to see if they can tap you into more local funding (eg evenings out, social events, meals a few times a week etc).

If you haven't tried it already, there's a benefits calculator at www.entitledto.co.uk that may identify other potential sources of benefits for your neighbour.

Good luck, and I hope that you manage to sort out some help for your neighbour, whatever source it comes from. Please let us know how you get on.

What to try next - Part 2?

I've not been able to log on for some time, and cannot locate any of my previous messages, but my thanks to Vivatifosi whose information and help on my last set of VOA experiences was invaluable. Unfortunately, mine isn't yet a success story as my local office still refuses to accept our rebanding query.

To briefly recap - In 1993 I appealed for a reduction in council tax, in the correct timeframe. As I couldn't attend myself, I always wonder whether that was partly the reason I was turned down. Now in 2007, thanks to Martin's exposure of information, I find that two neighbours in larger houses, who appealed at the same time as me, are paying Band E prices whilst our 3- bed house is in Band F. I've got lengthy correspondence with the local office in Barking, Essex constantly turning down my evidence, even though I've measured the footprint of both houses and the 4-beds are larger!

My last letter asked them to supply sales evidence from 1991, and they've now responded saying that a similar 3-bed property in my street sold for £123,500 in May 91. If this is so, then the 2 4-bed properties MUST have sold for more, but are paying Band E!

They carry on to say "I must point out that where a Valuation Tribunal decision has been made which either confirms or alters a band, I am prohibited by council tax legislation from altering the band again, unless there has been a physical change to the property or its locality which would reduce its value - ie: a new road or part of the property demolished.

This is driving me mad! Can I get any more information about the two houses that have been reduced and why they were successful and I wasnt.

Any advice or information from similar cases or has anyone in Redbridge/Barking EVER successfully got money back on Council Tax?

Thanks in advance - Quality Time

guppy

Quality_Time wrote: »

This is driving me mad! Can I get any more information about the two houses that have been reduced and why they were successful and I wasnt.

You could try asking the VOA, or even use an Freedom Of Information request (making clear you understand you can't see pre-2000 sale prices and asking these to be hidden if necessary) . There should be a paper trail

I'm not sure that would help your case though if it just means those ones are banded to low.

guppy

CSL wrote: »

I have had long conversations with the Lambeth VOA and they will not accept details of a flat or appartment. They stressed that I must compare like with like. They are very tough and insist on me producing details of other very similar ONE BEDROOM Semis.

Cheers for the reply

That's fair enough for them to insist that, an identical property is clearly best - but what 1 Bed Semis are they using?

Try and put the onus on them to prove it to you if you can...good luck

Smartdriver

.

My partner & I bought a bungalow in May of this year but haven't moved in yet. However, we do start paying council tax on it this month (24th). I've received a bill for the remainder of the council tax year which shows we are in band C. Research reveals that the whole of the street of similar houses is also in band C.

Despite this, and having checked on the valuation of the property in 1993 (£44,000) I believe we should be Band B (our property was bought for £120k).

I telephone the Valuation Office and asked for a re-assessment of the band but was advised that as all the neighbours were in the same band it would be unlikely to be changed. The young lady I spoke to said she would send out the necessary forms for me to complete.

What I would really appreciate advice on is what research I should do to support my claim ? Is it worth me visiting every house on the street and finding out how long my neighbours have lived there and how much they paid for their properties ? If I do this, how much time do I have before I have to submit the request to the council ?

There are some things I wish I'd never started........... but if it saves me money (and possibly my neighbours too) then I'm willing to make the effort :rotfl:

Any/all advice will be gratefully received and considered




.

vivatifosi

Hi Smartdriver,

The important thing is that you start proceedings within six months (I'm not sure if this is from purchase or occupation). You don't need to have ALL your evidence at this stage, but to start the process, which it sounds like you have done.

First and foremost, it is undoubtedly MUCH harder to argue against a band where there is no obvious ambiguity and the houses are all banded the same.

In terms of the house valuation for 1993, this is a good start, but doesn't necessarily prove your point. As a general trend, house prices fell between 1991 and 1993. However, certain house types, and certain locations were affected worse. I can only speak for where I live, in the South East, but in my town the worst affected properties were starter homes as - like now - the owners were most likely to be highly mortgaged and least likely to be able to rent out a room to get them out of the mire. This resulted in repossessions which pushed prices on this type of property down further. So, in the event that your house type was badly hit like that, £44k could still be indicative of a band C dwelling.

Although your whole street is banded C, are there any other adjacent streets with the same house model that are in a lower band? Where I used to live my house was banded C as were all the other houses in the street, but there was a street of houses of the same model 1/2 a mile away that was banded B. Of course, you need to be able to argue that the two areas are of similar status and value too.

Another thing you could do is look back through the local papers on microfilm for 1991. These are available in most main local libraries. Look for other bungalows in the area that would form a reasonable comparison. Look for papers from Jan 91-April 91, as those at the beginning of that time will have been completing in April 1991, the date from which all house vals are set.

If you can find a neighbour who bought their house in 1991, that will be invaluable, though in theory the VOA should have that information and I would hope would have formed the basis of your valuation. I remember around that time people were putting their houses on the market and then withdrawing them from sale because they couldn't get the prices they were after, and that type of evidence would not be readily available to the VOA.

How about putting a note through your neighbours door, saying that you would like to challenge Council Tax, it may come to nothing, but if you win, it opens up an opportunity for them and they could make £000s, depending on how long they've lived there. That should !!!!! their ears up to listen! Ask them if they bought their house in 1991, or if not as close as possible to it. If they didn't, are they aware of anyone who was trying to sell up at the time but pulled out for some reason.

You will be amazed at what paperwork some people keep! I'm helping others on my estate challenge their bands, and having asked around, someone with a different house model had a piece of info vital to someone with a three bed house (the original sales pricing catalogue) that they'd held onto for all those years... You never know what you'll get!

Good luck!

RichWrexham

I have just purchased a house in Wales for £179,000 where l hope to move in 10/12 weeks. The house is currently in band E, it is a 3 bedroom house. I have been on on the VOA website and have discovered that every other house on the street that l am moving to are all on a band E and some are 4 bedroom. I read the council tax reclaiming tips yesterday and discovered that Wales re-banded all properties in 2003 against valuations in the same year, l used the calculations yesterday against the rebanding table (2003 Q3 it was worth £117970) that they released and l believe this property should be in a band C. See table below:-

Does anyone have any experiance of this please?

They have installed a conservatory, would this affect the band after they sell the house to me?

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/w.../20033046e.htm

Range of values
Valuation bands in Wales
A -Values not exceeding £44,000

B -Values exceeding £44,000 but not exceeding £65,000

C -Values exceeding £65,000 but not exceeding £91,000

D -Values exceeding £91,000 but not exceeding £123,000

E -Values exceeding £123,000 but not exceeding £162,000

F -Values exceeding £162,000 but not exceeding £223,000

G -Values exceeding £223,000 but not exceeding £324,000

H - Values exceeding £324,000 but not exceeding £424,000

I -Values exceeding £424,000

moneychemist

I have recieved a council tax bill for £123

I went on the local council website and found out the yearly amount due is £940. Therefore i thought the amount due each month should be £94 (e.g. 940 divided by 10)???

Ive tried talking to them and i didnt follow what the woman was on about. She said that this is novembers bill and as i moved in on the 20th of september the bill was calculated from the 20th of sept to march 08 and therefore it was correct??

I really am lost as to how much i am meant to pay. Im going to go in to the council office later this afternoon and check in person but if any one can provide some info now it would be appreciated.

Many thanks

martinranson

Hello All,I just wanted to post this to see if anyone else had had the same experience as me in trying to sort of the council tax banding of my parents property.I suppose the simplist summary is that there are 7 "similar" properties in their road and two are in band E and 5 are in band D. The two in E are my parents 3 bedroom semi and a extended prior to 1991 4 bedroom semi.The other 5 in D all have similar floor/plot areas to my parents apart from one which is again 4 bedroom.So, I think you will agree, this should be a reasonable case of misbanding as the 4 bedroom should be in E and we should be in D.The issue I want to raise here is that we have had (so far!) two rounds of investigation with the local VOA and having looked at the VOA website tonight, all 6 of the other properties are now shod with a "rebanding investigation pending" label. Surely they cannot justify that the one property that has complained is in the right band whilst all the others are incorrect. Can the process be that outrageous ? Has anyone had a similar experience ?Also, if they all end up getting raised, which apparently cannot happen until resale, how can we take this further legally ? As my parents have coughed up about £3500 extra since this tax was introduced.I will be requesting a face to face at the highest level to discuss this.Many Thanks for listening, and I hope somebody can raise my spirits, even just a little.Martin

guppy

Hi Martin,

Generally speaking, the VOA will only discuss whether your parent's band is correct or not. They won't discuss other people's bandings with you.

In this case, it sounds like the other houses will only have their bands increased after they have sold. Normally this happens where work has been completed since council tax was introduced. Unfortunately, not only can they do this, but they have a duty to correct bands where they are wrong.

The only way to proceed with this is by trying to prove your parents' house is valued incorrectly. The fact the other people paid less is irritating but will not entitle your parents' to a reduction alone

In terms of raising your spirits...well you've found the best thread about challenging CT bands on the internet, and a forum full of lovely, helpful people.

If you decide to take this further, there is loads of info about obtaining evidence of values and building a case on this thread. Good luck!