Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

A_Nice_Englishman

Taffyscot wrote: »

Hi, I have just tried to read and digest this council band thing. My neighbour upstairs pays £105 a month council tax. She is learning disabled quite severely, and has to have someone help her with all her forms etc. She was left her flat by her mother and father so that she would have a place to live when they passed away. Her brother is the trustee for her when she needs repairs etc. Because of her disablities (which have never been recognised but that's another story for another post) she can only get employment in an old people's home for 20 hours a week at minimum wage. So she earns £440 pound a month. Someone told her in the bank that she shouldn't be paying that much council tax as they can see what she earns and all her expenses. So she went to CAB and they filled in a form to get a rebate on the council tax and they denied it. She asked me to read her the form and tell her of their decision. I could not believe this hard working single woman has to pay over a quarter of her wages to council tax. She has to pay factor fees for the administration of the flats at £20.00 a month and then electricity, telephone, gas, food. I started looking into the council tax for her. She lives in a 1 bedroom, top floor flat that has not been updated at all since her parents died 20 years ago. There are bare pipes in the kitchen wall and formica wood on the walls in the kitchen. Her bathroom has joking tiles (that is really wallpaper) peeling off in huge patches all over the wall. Her toilet looks like someone has thrown a bomb in there, there is a huge bubble on the side of the toilet so it is all mishappen. You all get the state of her place by now I hope. It is clean and tidy but in desperate need of renovation that she cannot afford. Her place is going to be worth a heck of a lot less than any of the other 8 flats in the building. The trouble is her flat looks out over the Clyde. It is assessed as grade C. I am trying to work out as best I can what her grading should be. Going by the steps that Martin gave in his council tax claims the average price on a flat in this street in 1991 is well below the grading for a class C. All of the flats in this block are a class C and I think again this is due to the fact that they look out over the water. Can anyone give me any advice as to how to word a letter to the Scottish assessors to have this banding re-evaluated. I have read most of the success stories and most of them have different banding than their neighbours with similar houses so it is quite easy to see how they are easily assessed. I do not want to do anything that could make my neighbour have to pay anymore and be reassessed higher. I desperately want to help her but if they give her that different banding then it will mean that all the flats in this building will be reassessed. I do not think they will want to give it to her for that reason. HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP anyone. Taffy

As you talk about 'looking over the Clyde' I assume you are in Glasgow. The rate of council tax for a Band C dwelling is £1403.42 pa or £116.95 a month. See http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/YourHome/CouncilTax/Charges/

As she lives on her own your neighbour should get a 25% reduction, making ot £87.71 a month. I can't see where the £105 a month comes from, unless she is paying off arrears perhaps?

The council tax band is based on what the property would have been worth on 1 April 1991, so the fact that it is in poor condition now is not really relevant.

I think the best way you could help your neighbour would be to encourage her to get advice on claiming all the benefits she may be entitled to.

Taffyscot

Excuse my ignorance with geography as I am an imported Welsh lass. We live in Largs and when I say the sea I am always contradicted and told it is the Firth of Clyde. Sorry I did not put that in that it is the Firth of Clyde, my other half just told me it is the Firth of Clyde not the Clyde. She definately pays more than £87 a month. I have to get all her details. This only happened a few days ago that I found out about her predicament. I always assumed that she was well taken care of by her parents. I have phoned up all the government agencies I can think of and all the societies for people with learning disabilities. I have applied to get a DLA form for her and have gone to her local doctor's with her yesterday and explained the situation to him and asked him if he will fill the part of the form in that asks for a summary from someone who knows her. I am trying to do everything to help her and every little bit helps. She could not get the advice on her own as she is incapable of comprehending and filling in the forms. I have not seen the exact amount of what she pays just the form from the council saying that she did not qualify to get a reduction in the council tax. I took her word for the amount she pays but that could be a bit out as she doesn't have a very good memory for figures. Thanks anyway for your suggestions. Taffy

vivatifosi

Hi Taffyscot,

I'm not an expert on what you are asking about, but I think there are four potential elements to your question that your neighbour may be able to get some help with. I hope that you get answers to these, because you are just the reason many of us come on these boards: to try and do something tangible to help people who are in much worse situations than us. If you haven't already done so, you may also need to think laterally and post the issue more broadly on some other MSE forums that deal more with the charity/benefits side.

The four issues that I would consider looking at are:

* Council tax rebanding
* Council tax rebates
* Appropriate housing
* Other funds that may help

I'm hoping that CIS will answer the part on rebates, because they are an absolute star at answering such questions and will give you the best and most accurate answer.

In terms of the banding, there are two issues. Firstly, is the flat in habitable condition? The second is how does the banding compare to those of the neighbours? I don't know about Scotland, but in England there is a baseline of condition that is assumed in terms of the property. Essentially if the property is habitable then its worth is broadly assumed to be that of the other properties, all things being equal. You could try speaking to the VOA and asking for advice on this. You should also double checking the other bands in the building and/or similar. Finally on this point, is there any element of disabled conversion as this may also help in your favour as that can be looked favourably upon in reducing banding.

If the location is not habitable, or barely habitable, then that brings me on to question 3. Is there anything that local authorities or disability charities can do to bring her home up to scratch and make her life (in the non-financial sense) more comfortable? It must be miserable living in the conditions that you describe, and there ought to be funding out there - either government or charity - to bring her place up to scratch.

The final issue is trying to get additional funding. I have worked with my aunt who was in a similar situation after an industrial accident that meant she lost her job and home. It took a lot of time and a lot of red tape, but we finally got her DLA mobility and care components after going to tribunal (Social Services originally turned her down). We have also found other local funds that she is entitled to that make her life easier from charities etc. The CAB is brilliant at helping with DLA forms etc, but it is also worth finding out who the local disability advocacy groups are to see if they can tap you into more local funding (eg evenings out, social events, meals a few times a week etc).

If you haven't tried it already, there's a benefits calculator at www.entitledto.co.uk that may identify other potential sources of benefits for your neighbour.

Good luck, and I hope that you manage to sort out some help for your neighbour, whatever source it comes from. Please let us know how you get on.

Taffyscot

Thanks so much for that lovely letter and words of encouragement viv. Some CAB offices seem brilliant and others have a couldn't care less attitude. I have not found that they have helped me in numerous situations. She lives in ok conditions it is what she is used to. She has a nice place really but it is not up to the renovations of the other flats in the building. I realise since posting that the council tax is not run at all like Canada where I lived for many years. There if you have a house and it is the same size and in the same street as another but you have not done any renovations or upgrading or repairs then your place will obviously not sell for as much as one that is completely upgraded and you subsequently pay much less council tax. Her place is warm and dry and she keeps it clean and has a lovely view. We live in a small town and I am not aware of any charities anywhere close to help. She goes to a small church and I think they rally around her. I will ask on another forum for any suggestions or help filling out the DLA form that arrived today. The doctor said he would fill the part out of someone who knows her and can describe her. Someone suggested today that I get the doctor to fill that bit out first so then I could see if she has a proper diagnosis as she obviously doesn't know this. Then I could proceed from there maybe stating what I see and dropping in parts of her diagnosis if she has one. Fingers crossed that she has a diagnosis poor wee soul. Thank you for your help tho viv and I will try the benefits calculator. Just one little tiny drop of knowledge sometimes enables us to grow a magnificent sunflower. Taffy

A_Nice_Englishman

Taffyscot,

I understand how you got the nickname now!

Sorry, I jumped to the conclusion you were in Glasgow when you mentioned the Clyde. Anyway, the council tax in North Ayrshire (I think Largs is there?) is slightly lower than Glasgow so it still looks like she is paying too much. Here's a link to North Ayrshire's Council Tax information, in case you haven't found it already

http://www.north-ayrshire.gov.uk/na/home.nsf/OtherMenuPage?ReadForm&MenuType=Council%20government and democracy-North Ayrshire Council-Council tax and finance&DocDisplay=Council tax&CatLevel=3||

She's lucky to have someone like you to help her and I see lots of advice has already been posted so I will wish you both lots of luck in sorting out her problems.

Taffyscot

Awwwwwwwww thanks so much nice. I tried calling the Scottish assessors today and tried to get an answer from them how they work out the tax banding. He wouldn't answer me and kept saying that the trouble with these web sites is that it is giving a general price for all of Scotland for 1991. I tried to explain to him that I had taken the average last prices of these particular flats, not even similar properties in the street but sales from these 9 identical (in size anyway) flats. He kept saying yes but flats in Largs would cost more in 1991 than say somewhere inland like Beith. I kept telling him I understand that but flats are not selling in Beith in mid 2006 for 85,000. So if flats are 85,000 now then they will be comparatively less in 1991 so will flats in Beith of the same size selling for 40,000. He would have none of it and told me these internet sites are useless but to write a letter of appeal. I asked if there were forms for me to fill in to appeal and he said no just write a letter and we will tell you yay or nay. I said will you show me how you worked out your calculations tho. He said we will tell me why my appeal is denied. (strange sounds as if he is predicting the future.) Also here in Ayrshire, from my understanding, we pay 10 months of the year and get "2 free months" so essentially are paying 10 months instead of spreading it out over 12. Thanks again nice and I will check it out. I am like a dog with a bone once I have gotten an idea in my head. taffy

A_Nice_Englishman

Taffyscot wrote: »

...Also here in Ayrshire, from my understanding, we pay 10 months of the year and get "2 free months" so essentially are paying 10 months instead of spreading it out over 12. ...

Ah, I didn't realise that so I'll do the sums again.

Annual council tax for Band C is £1349.20

1349.20 / 10 = 134.92

25% sole occupancy discount = 33.73

Monthly payment = £101.19

So what she's paying sounds about right

Taffyscot

A_Nice_Englishman wrote: »

Ah, I didn't realise that so I'll do the sums again.

Annual council tax for Band C is £1349.20

1349.20 / 10 = 134.92

25% sole occupancy discount = 33.73

Monthly payment = £101.19

So what she's paying sounds about right

Aye nice, sounds dead on because I phoned up the council tax a few days ago and they said that looking at her account they were going to reduce it by £4.00. Where they got that from and why I have no idea but as I was talking to them they said there would be a letter out telling her she has to pay £4.00 less each time. I didn't have her documents so I could not comment. (She couldn't find them.) So that is amazing it is dead on. Thanks for your help Taffy

Terminater

Hi all,
Three New Build houses down the road sold in Dec 2006 & Jan 2007 for £180k in Band “C”. I purchased my New Build house in March 2007 for £179k and it was placed in Band “D”. VOA states that the reason is that my house is 140M2 and the other three properties are 117M2.

My argument is, what has size to do with it? Council Tax Banding is supposed to be the price a house would have sold for on 1st April 1991. I would argue, that house prices have risen over the years by a certain percentage. They do not say that a property that is a few square meters bigger or smaller commands a different percentage increase. Therefore if the VOA is correct, on my property being more expensive in 1991, to justify a “D” Banding, it would be more expensive in 2007, not £1,000 less than the smaller houses. Any comments would be appreciated.
Kind Regards
John

dmcm9

Hi Taffyscot

I also live in Scotland and am currently enagaged in correspondence with the Assessors office.

The Assessor is entirely correct about the house price calculators that you find on the internet, they are very inaccurate. The Assessor will base his banding on actual sales that took place in 1991.

The Assessor will probably issue you with a standard letter telling you that you are 'out of time' to appeal and that he has checked the band and its correct. Don't accept this! If the Assessor doesn't explain the band then you are entitled to ask him for the sales evidence he has based the banding on.

Also there is a site called www.scottishhouseprices.com where you can access sales information from 1991 for a small fee - depending on the response from the Asessor or how far you want to argue the banding it may come in useful for you.