Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

guppy

JoeHel wrote: »

I'm not sure what I should do, if anything.

I'm a tenant, not an owner. Moved in in May this year and our six months are up in about 2 weeks. We are in a 2 bed flat in Bishops Stortford and are currently banded D, as are the rest of the flats in our block (there are 9 flats in all).

I have, out of interest, put the sale price of the (identical) flat below us into the 1991 calculator, and it estimates a price of £60,000 - well within the Band C limits.

Thing is, as a tenant - is it my place to ask for a re-assessment? We're the ones paying the council tax.... Would a landlord object? This also will have ramifications for all the other 8 flats in the block, surely.

What should I do?

Hi Joe,

Lots of interesting questions there. I will give you my opinions but others may disagree

First of all, get the appeal in regardless. A formal appeal gives you the right to see the VOA's 1991 evidence and to have an independent Tribunal hear your case if you disagree with the VOA's opinion.

The Nationwide calculator isn't a great way to value a property in 1991, and in itself this doesn't prove anything The VOA don't give it much weight, Valuation Tribunals don't give it much weight and the Nationwide itself don't claim it to be anything more than a statistical tool. Basically it covers far too wide an area, all different types of property etc. This isn't to say give up though. Don't want to over complicate things but I believe the Nationwide do publish a separate index for flats on their site (but without a handy calculator).

The VOA has a duty to ensure bands are fair and consistent. Clearly the bands are consistent within your block but you could compare them to bands in other blocks of flats in the same town. You could also see what these flats have sold for compared to yours. If you can't find flats try houses that sell for the same money as flats in your block...this is less persuasive though, as it can be argued houses and flats are two different markets.

Ask the VOA to explain any relevant inconsistencies you can find.

Finally, its frankly none of the landlord's business. As you say, you are the one paying the bill, and you are the person liable in law. You've every right to appeal, the landlord doesn't even have to know. I doubt he would care anyway.

Obviously if all the flats are identical, they'd all have to reduced if you win your appeal. This effectively makes the stakes higher, so be prepared for quite a battle. Unless a clear error has been made you'll need to do your research and make a strong case as to why your flat is overvalued.

There is loads of advice on how to do that on this thread. Best of luck

ktbiff

ktbiff wrote: »

ANOTHER ONE AFTER SOME ADVICE ,I'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS BECAUSE WHEN WE PURCHASED OUR HOUSE IN APRIL 2000 WE WERE ADVISED THAT OUR BANDING WOULD BE REVIEWED DUE TO THE FACT THE PREVIOUS OWNERS BUILT AN EXTENSION THEY PROMTLY MOVED US UP TO BAND C FROM B,WHICH WE AT THE TIME ACCEPTED NOT BEING AWARE OF ANY OTHER OPTION .
WE APPEALED ON 26/9/07 AND RECIEVED A LETTER DATED 27/9 WHICH WAS AN NOTICE OF INVALID PROPOSAL THEY SAID IT WAS ISSUED COS OUT SIDE TIME LIMITS AND NO MATERIAL CHANGE TO PROPERTY. IN THE SAME ENVELOPE THERE WAS ANOTHER LETTER SAYING THEY WOULD REVIEW OUR BANDING IF I FILED OUT A FORM WITH OUR PROPERTY DETAILS ,BEING A BIT DISHEARTENED I HAD NOT FILLED THIS IN WHEN I RECIEVED A LETTER STATINGTHAT WE WERE BEING ALTERED TO A BAND B HOORAYWITH AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF ALTERATION APRIL 2000.
SO HERES THE BIT WERE I NEED HELP ,WHAT NEXT DO I WRITE APPEALING FOR MY MONEY BACK IF SO ON WHAT GROUNDS ?SHOULD I HAVE APPEALED AT THE TIME( APRIL 200) ?
I'VE NOT HEARD FROM MY LOCAL COUNCIL BABERGH YET WITH AN AMENDED BILL.BIT OF A STORY I KNOW ,SO FOR ANYONE STILL AWAKE HELP

got my amended bill through for this year & all others dating back to april 2000 £833.88 to be paid into my account plus reduced payments for the rest of this financial year ,well worth the small amount of effort i had to make to fill a form in

llandod

Not really a question, but thought I'd see if anyone who has been through the appeal process can offer any advise.

When I moved into my house last April, following the advise on this site, I checked the banding for my street. There are 3 or 4 different styles of houses on the street banded in either C, D or E, mine is in D. My house is of the type that is most common on the street and the majority of these are also in D, however, my house is a semi and the house that we are joined to and therefore the closest match to my house is in band C. I lodged an appeal based on this fact and I have to say got the expected response, the listing officer comparing at great length, my house with others in the street that are in band D, but making no mention of the difference between me and next door. I have spoken to him since and although he agrees that it seems odd, was not prepared to discuss it further prior to going to a hearing. The hearing date is now set and despite trawling many papers for some evidence of 1991 sale prices, I have failed to find any useful data so I am looking at attending the hearing on the basis of the difference between the 2 houses when there are other similar houses in the street in band D. Getting the feeling that I am probably wasting my time, can anyone convince me that I'm not?

vivatifosi

Hi llandod,

The Tribunal Service is independent of the VOA, and will listen fairly to any evidence that you have. You definitely aren't wasting your time! The comments I have made below assume you are in England, as you refer to 1991 sale prices, though from your name I'm not sure if you're in Wales as the rules may be different.

You have a right to visit the VOA and ask for the evidence on which the pricing on your house is based, along with the one that's in the lower band. You also have the right for the same type of data on any other houses that you think you can use in evidence, up to the same number as they have put to you as their evidence or a maximum (can't remember if this is six or four) if the number they use is lower. I did this for my tribunal and the VOA listing officer said I was only the second person he'd seen since 1993 asking for evidence. It's your right and a may be a very powerful tool. They have to allow you this, though you may not be allowed to copy it, just take notes.

I would wait until you see what they plan to use against you, but make it clear to them that you plan to visit and get this info. Please also note that you can get a very good DVD from the VTS explaining the tribunal process and what to expect.

Good luck!

faithdawn

Hi, I live in Essex in outer metropolitan area. My property was sold for £113,000 in June 1993 which would indicate it falling within Band E as at April 1991, but the listing officer is saying that because of the house price slump which occurred in the early 1990s that this slump needs to be taken into account ie that if there had not been a slump then the property would probably have sold for a higher figure in June 1993 taking it into F Band. Secondly, the listing officer has quoted sq meterage of other similar properties in the area and their banding in relation to size but I cannot find anything in the regulations relating to 'specific meterage'. Additionally, this method of measurement would appear to disadvantage people who live in bungalows as all their living accommodation is downstairs thus increasing the meterage of their property? Would appreciate any comments on either or both of the above 2 queries raised. Many thanks, PS we have a tribunal hearing for early November.

PRIOR_2

vivatifosi wrote: »

Hi Prior,

The key question is what value the extension added to your home. It may be the case that it just tipped your house from a band B to a band C. Where I live the house price calculators are out by about £6k (under) on very small band bottom of band C categories and give false readings for properties at the very bottom of band C as band B (you can check this for houses that you have recent and 1991 data for, make sure you use the same type of house as different sizes and types of property prices behaved differently).

The best thing to do then is to see whether any of the houses in your street sold (or even were just on the market) in 1991 and what they were selling for. The best ways to do this are check on the local newspaper house ads at the local library and ask around your neighbours. Does your other band C neighbour have an extension?

Good luck with the checking, and also ask the VOA to back up their evidence that they are correct. I hate it when they just say "we are correct" without saying why!

Thank you for your reply. Even if my extention was the reason as to why we are in Band C it would not make a difference of £12.000 which is the difference between the calculation on the web and the cost of the band C. We have recently contacted the head of our local council who is also mystified as to why we are in a different banding to our emidiate neighbours and is going to look into this matter for us KEEP YOU POSTED.

guppy

faithdawn wrote: »

Hi, I live in Essex in outer metropolitan area. My property was sold for £113,000 in June 1993 which would indicate it falling within Band E as at April 1991, but the listing officer is saying that because of the house price slump which occurred in the early 1990s that this slump needs to be taken into account ie that if there had not been a slump then the property would probably have sold for a higher figure in June 1993 taking it into F Band. Secondly, the listing officer has quoted sq meterage of other similar properties in the area and their banding in relation to size but I cannot find anything in the regulations relating to 'specific meterage'. Additionally, this method of measurement would appear to disadvantage people who live in bungalows as all their living accommodation is downstairs thus increasing the meterage of their property? Would appreciate any comments on either or both of the above 2 queries raised. Many thanks, PS we have a tribunal hearing for early November.

Hi faith,

There was a crash from 1989 onwards, so your house would almost certainly been worth more at 1991. How much more is speculation though...

You could use the Nationwide calculator to get a rough idea, but its not really concrete proof either way, it just shows how the "average" house moved in price.

The square meterage the VOA are referring to shouldn't be the footprint of the property, its the overall area. So if a surveyor was measuring the external area of a simple two storey house, they'd measure the ground floor and then double it. Hope that makes sense. Where I live, bungalows generally sell for more than houses of the same overall size though. There are less of them, they take up more land, and lots of people are chasing them. The VOA would have to prove the same situation existed at 1991 though.

You are right about there being nothing in the law about using square meterage. Comparing properties by size is just another tool by which to try and value them. Most people would probably agree that the bigger a house, the more desirable it is, but other things such as location, age, quality, etc. etc. are also relevant.

In my opinion a house being plain ugly can reduce its value just as much as being 10% smaller for example.

Before the Tribunal, the VOA will have to send you the details of the properties they will be using as evidence. Ask for these as early as possible and then go and look at them if needs be. You can then decide for yourself whether they would be more or less desirable than your house and build your case around that if necessary.

Good luck

guppy

vivatifosi wrote: »

I did this for my tribunal and the VOA listing officer said I was only the second person he'd seen since 1993 asking for evidence. It's your right and a may be a very powerful tool.

In my opinion it is no coincidence vivatifosi won. :T Most people don't Listen to this person and do your research people

powerful_Rogue

Hi Everyone!

Just a quick question! I have checked all my surrounding properties and we are all in band B.

I have used the nethouseprices.com and nationwide.co.uk and carried out many checks.( Sale prices in 2000,2005,2007 compared to what they would have been worth on 1991).

Every single time its come back as all the properties were worth around £33,000 - Band A.
Now ive listened to Martins advice and he discourages people from appealing in this situation - but is there a chance the whole street was banded too high?

guppy

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Hi Everyone!

Just a quick question! I have checked all my surrounding properties and we are all in band B.

I have used the nethouseprices.com and nationwide.co.uk and carried out many checks.( Sale prices in 2000,2005,2007 compared to what they would have been worth on 1991).

Every single time its come back as all the properties were worth around £33,000 - Band A.
Now ive listened to Martins advice and he discourages people from appealing in this situation - but is there a chance the whole street was banded too high?

This would suggest either house prices in your street have risen slower than the Nationwide's average for your region since 1991, or that the VOA have made a gargantuan error and no one has realised since 1993.

My money would probably be on the former, but you have absolutely nothing to lose from asking for a review provided your house isn't undervalued (also unlikely here).