Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

Maisie

misty wrote:

Hello – does anyone have any advice for me as to what to do now? I appealed online and today received this reply - below. They haven’t sent me any appeal form or any guideline or timescale. I appealed on the grounds that nearly all of the houses on my cul de sac are in a lower band – including the house next door which is a mirror image of mine as before I moved in the house it didn’t have central heating – I can’t imagine it was in any way superior to any of the others. The other houses in the higher band aren’t the biggest – in fact the ones in the higher band are all those that were sold more recently – in the last eight years or so. The biggest house is in lower bracket.

“I refer to my recent letter concerning your proposal to alter the council tax valuation band of the property shown above. In that letter I said I was unable to accept your form as valid proposal but undertook to review the banding of your property. (I didn’t actually get this letter but however)

I have reviewed the evidence of values in your locality and any representations you may have made. In the light of this I am satisfied that your band is correct and I don ot intend to alter it.

As you may know the basis of the valuation for council tax is laid down by law. Briefly, the band of a dwelling is based on the amount which the property might reasonably have fetched if it had been sold on the open market by a willing vendor on 1st April 1991. this is the date of valuation applied to all properties for council tax purposes, irrespective of whether the property actually existed at that time. If you require more detailed information on the basis of valuation for banding purposes, a leaflet “How property is valued” is available form this office.

I realise this is not the outcome you wanted. I hope you appreciate that I have considered all the points you have raised and I remain of the opinion that the band is correct.”

Can anyone help Misty with her problem?

Altarf

Maisie wrote:

Can anyone help Misty with her problem?

This is the standard first letter that they send out, the one I received back in June was almost identical.

The online form provides little room for you to make your case, and in a letter or email you can set it out much better.

Do your research and quote facts and figures to the VOA.
- Exactly why should your house be in band X?
- What proof do you have? Is it exactly the same as properties a, b and c, which are in lower bands? If so say so.
- Even if all the neighbouring houses are in the same band as you, what about properties over the road, or round the corner?
- If your house did not exist in 1991, how much were similar properties selling for on 1/4/1991 (I found newspaper archives in my local library were very helpful) and which band are they in.
- How do you know that house X that you are comparing yours to is the same size. See if you can find similar properties on sale now, and look at the dimensions on the estate agents site.

You need to convince the VOA that you are right and that the listing is wrong, and if you can give them inconvertible evidence, they are likely to accept it rather than argue. Be nice to to the VOA person you are dealing with, even if the most recent letter they send you says no. If you make an enemy of them they will never say yes.

If it is a case of my house is band Z and all the other identical houses in the street are band A, then your case is easy.

In my case, all the houses in my street were the same band. However the ones in a different nearby development built 20 years earlier appeared to be a mixture of a lower band and a the same band as mine. Looking at the properties some were slightly smaller (the lower banded properties) and some were a lot bigger (the same banded properties). When I checked the newspaper archives and I found that the selling prices were right on the borderline of the bands I knew I would have a tricky job convincing the VOA.

In my case after the initial turn down letter the same as Misty, I contacted the VOA officer and asked what the next stage was, as I disagreed with their letter. Was the next the tribunal? The VOA officer asked me to send in details of why I disagreed with their letter as they would sooner resolve matters before it got to tribunal if possible.

I did so and got another letter turning me down in August. I told the VOA that I still did not accept their decision and a tribunal date was set for January (after a postponement). Even after the tribunal date was scheduled, the VOA and I kept corresponding.

And the ending to my story. Today I received a phone call from the VOA advising me that they have accepted that I should be in a lower band. Just waiting for the cheque now.

Maisie

Altarf wrote:

This is the standard first letter that they send out, the one I received back in June was almost identical.

The online form provides little room for you to make your case, and in a letter or email you can set it out much better.

Do your research and quote facts and figures to the VOA.
- Exactly why should your house be in band X?
- What proof do you have? Is it exactly the same as properties a, b and c, which are in lower bands? If so say so.
- Even if all the neighbouring houses are in the same band as you, what about properties over the road, or round the corner?
- If your house did not exist in 1991, how much were similar properties selling for on 1/4/1991 (I found newspaper archives in my local library were very helpful) and which band are they in.
- How do you know that house X that you are comparing yours to is the same size. See if you can find similar properties on sale now, and look at the dimensions on the estate agents site.

You need to convince the VOA that you are right and that the listing is wrong, and if you can give them inconvertible evidence, they are likely to accept it rather than argue. Be nice to to the VOA person you are dealing with, even if the most recent letter they send you says no. If you make an enemy of them they will never say yes.

If it is a case of my house is band Z and all the other identical houses in the street are band A, then your case is easy.

In my case, all the houses in my street were the same band. However the ones in a different nearby development built 20 years earlier appeared to be a mixture of a lower band and a the same band as mine. Looking at the properties some were slightly smaller (the lower banded properties) and some were a lot bigger (the same banded properties). When I checked the newspaper archives and I found that the selling prices were right on the borderline of the bands I knew I would have a tricky job convincing the VOA.

In my case after the initial turn down letter the same as Misty, I contacted the VOA officer and asked what the next stage was, as I disagreed with their letter. Was the next the tribunal? The VOA officer asked me to send in details of why I disagreed with their letter as they would sooner resolve matters before it got to tribunal if possible.

I did so and got another letter turning me down in August. I told the VOA that I still did not accept their decision and a tribunal date was set for January (after a postponement). Even after the tribunal date was scheduled, the VOA and I kept corresponding.

And the ending to my story. Today I received a phone call from the VOA advising me that they have accepted that I should be in a lower band. Just waiting for the cheque now.

Thanks Altarf for sharing your case with us and I'm sure it will help others who are having a battle with their appeal.

Misty are you reading this? Take heart from Altarf's case and persevere.

Good luck.

Maisie OP

misty

Thanks for the responses. I telephoned the VOA officer the other day. She seemed pretty clued up and went through the details on the phone with me. Basically, their argument is that my house has a larger exterior area than the others. There are 17 houses in the cul de sac 12 are in Band A and 5 are in band B. Some of the band A properties are bigger than mine but the officer said this didn't count because some were terraced and mine is semi detached. The majority are semis . She said next door - which is a mirror image to mine and in a lower band has a slightly smaller exterior area - and that mine (although she did admit it wasn't much more) was just enough to tip it into the next band. She claims although they didn't measure every house in person - they have digital floor plans (or something like that). I asked what the next step would be - she said I would need to prove that the house would have cost less than a band b in 1993. Until I moved in - this house didn't have central heating or a modern kitchen etc whereas next door was much better maintained and at that time would have raised more. How can I prove this though?

thanks again.

Altarf

misty wrote:

There are 17 houses in the cul de sac 12 are in Band A and 5 are in band B. Some of the band A properties are bigger than mine but the officer said this didn't count because some were terraced and mine is semi detached. The majority are semis . She said next door - which is a mirror image to mine and in a lower band has a slightly smaller exterior area - and that mine (although she did admit it wasn't much more) was just enough to tip it into the next band.

Same argument as they used for me, that the houses I was comparing them to were slightly smaller.

Semi-Detached houses (or end terrace) will have higher value than terraced houses, even if they are the same size (all else being the same). I would say your best bet is to try to compare like with like, otherwise you are trying to argue about an uncertaintable difference between the value of a semi and the value of a terrace.

So compare your house with other semis in the area (and don't just pick those in your road, but also those in the nearby area).

misty wrote:

She claims although they didn't measure every house in person - they have digital floor plans (or something like that).

True, but their plans may be wrong, they were for my house and they actually came out and measured it. Also note that they use the external measurment and not the internal measument, so make sure you are comparing like with like.

misty wrote:

I asked what the next step would be - she said I would need to prove that the house would have cost less than a band b in 1993.

Although council tax came in on 1st April 1993, the value that they use is the value of the property on 1st April 1991. Band A was up to £40,000 and band B was from £40,001 to £52,000 (assuming that you are in England).

misty wrote:

Until I moved in - this house didn't have central heating or a modern kitchen etc whereas next door was much better maintained and at that time would have raised more. How can I prove this though?

Part of the basis of the valuation is an assumption that the property is in a 'state of reasonable repair', even if it isn't. So that fact that yours was less well maintained than next door on 1/4/1991 is not relevant.

If it was me the first thing I would do is establish if the mirror image semi next door is smaller than yours, and by how much. Is it so little difference that a tribunal would laugh if the VOA tried to use it as the foundation of their argument? Also is there any reason why yours would have a lower value than your neighbours (e.g. outlook, nearer to something undesirable, poorer access, etc), even though your might be slightly bigger. The VOA will only have a vague knowledge of the area, so may not have taken into account something that is obvious to you.

Next check the VOA website for surrounding streets, and find any other band A semis in the neighbourhood and work out their size. If you can find other properties that are bigger than yours, but band A, then the VOA argument is lost.

If this doesn't provide sufficient proof that yours should be in band A, then try the newspaper archive in the local libary (they usually have them on microfiche) and see what similar properties were being advertised for between 1/1/91 and 31/6/1991. If they were being advertised for less than £40k they wouldn't have sold more than £40k. You won't have the addresses, but it will help build a picture if it goes to tribunal.

Finally, whenever you speak to the VOA, let them know that you are more than happy for it to go to tribunal. Just appear blasé about it, as if you attend such events every day. They know that many people are terrified of appearing and are likely to settle beforehand. Call their bluff. Even if it goes to tribunal there is no cost to you other than a day off work (and you don't even have to attend if you don't want to), and what's the worse than can happen - they confirm it is band B.

Until either the VOA agree band A or the tribunal rules band A or B, the game is not over.

misty

Thanks Altarf - some good avenues for me to pursue there. I hadn't realised it wasn't just on my road but nearby roads too. Thanks also to Jamieb for the PM. As usual if no-one on this site knows the answer then the question probably wasn't worth asking. Happy Christmas to all.

sarahmoo

Just to say I have received a cheque for £730 and council tax paid for all next year. banding reduced.

DELIGHTED!

It was a struggle initially as my appeal was declined (been here 3 years.) They did agree when I contacted them subsequently.

christineperseus

Spoke to Valuation Officer today - I am two bands higher than my semi-detatched neighbour - they are going to send someone out to survey my semi in the new year.
Keep all bits crossed - they agee there is an anomalie but don't know which way to jump.
Hopefully it will be a reduction for me - otherwise a £500 a year increase for my neighbour!

Maisie

sarahmoo wrote:

Just to say I have received a cheque for £730 and council tax paid for all next year. banding reduced.

DELIGHTED!

It was a struggle initially as my appeal was declined (been here 3 years.) They did agree when I contacted them subsequently.

That's great sarahmoo. Glad your perseverance paid off. It gives encouragement to other MSEs.

christineperseus hope your appeal is successful and your banding goes down.

All the best and keep appealing and checking your council tax banding https://www.voa.gov.uk.

Happy Christmas everyone and all the sweeter for those that got refunds.

Maisie OP

skye0705

How can I find the same house price details for Northern Ireland - still part of UK when I last checked?