Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

08689

Daisy_Bell wrote: »

Zebedee & Guppy. Well I have heard from the Coventry VO and they say they have evidence of sales of 3 bed properties in our area in 1991 and they claim they are over £68,000 - albeit right down at the lower end, and the 4 beds are at the top end of the £88,000 cut-off. So that is 'Just my bad luck'! They have refused to lower my band from 'D' to 'C' saying that in their opinion they think it is correct. I have sent them extra evidence, including photos of some of the properties and they have said they might look at it again in view of this. The trouble is, I only have the Nationwide Calculated prices of the average properties sold in our area in 1991 which is not good enough - although these are almost £7,000 below the £68,000. point. I do have 'Real' evidence of properties sold in our area in 1996, the average of which was £69,300. (four years later) Also an actual sale of a property in our road which sold for £99,000 in 2001. Evidence I thought that surely a similar property could not possibly have sold for £68,000. in 1991? The differences between the 3 and four bedroomed properties in this area are tremendous - that's why I sent photographs. The first letter I got saying my proposal was invalid because I was out of time, says that in view of the invalidity of my claim, I could not demand to see their evidence of sales for 1991. Is this correct? What is the FO1 Act someone ealier mentioned, that says I have a right to see their evidence?
Anyway, I am going to attend the 'Invalidity Notice Appeal Tribunal' even though it seems a lost cause. The VO are claiming there was widespread publicity that people could appeal against their banding at the time the Council Tax was introduced, even to the extent that leaflets were distributed through letterboxes, I can't remember having received anything like this. I mean, every house in our area, 3 and 4 bed alike were banded at 'D' and in all the time since, not one 3 bed property owner has ever appealed! Why not, if it was so well publicised that they could? I can see where the VO is coming from in this case. It's not really one individual case they're looking at here. Because all the 3 bed properties in our area are Band 'D' they don't feel they can reduce one, because it would then open the flood gates for everyone else to claim too! It would cost the Council dearly!
The whole system of Council Tax across the country is a shambles and its about time all properties were re-valued properly. My son has recently bought a newly-built 3-bed detached property in the Cotswolds in Gloucestershire (a really desirable part of the country.) Its value when he bought it was in the region of £250,000 and is now worth in excess of £3000,000. Guess what his Council Tax band is? 'D'! We would be lucky to get £178,000. for ours if we sold it! A friend of mine lives in Norfolk in a very similar property to ours and her Council Tax Band is 'B'! Her property is worth about the same as ours. Coventry already has one of the highest Council Tax charges in the country, so you can imagine what a Band 'D' property costs us!

Apologies if you have already got this message, but im not very compute literate.
Daisy bell, have you any update re this one?

I am in a similar position to yourself although the other identical 3 beds on my estate are actually band C, when im a band D. I didnt even realise until martin's tv appearance some months ago. My council VOa are refusing to supplyn me with their so called EVIDENCE and im lost as to wher to go to now!

guppy

08689 wrote: »

...

I have requested the VOA provide me with these "actual sales" but they conveinently quote sec 9 of the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005, which makes it a criminal offence to disclose information if the taxpayer can be deduced from the disclosure!

Where do I go from here.

Hello,

There's nothing to prevent the VOA to providing you details of sales minus the exact addresses.

i.e. they can tell you the approximate date of sale, street, and size/type of property.

Ask them to provide this in the interests of customer service, along with the details of your house so you can compare and check they have correct details for your house.

Good luck

Daisy_Bell

I would have thought you were in a better positon than me, as some of the properties similar to you in your street are in Band C and you can point to those, whereas all of the four and three beds in my street are in Band D. The three beds don't even have a proper hall entrance, just a vestibule and the stairs go up off the lounge. All the four beds have through hall entrances and separate stairs off. The VOA seem to have banded them all in D simply because they are all detached! When I requested sight of the 'Evidence' the VOA said they had of sales of both types of property from between 1991 and 1993 being over £68,000. and reminding them that they had a duty in law to keep accurate and fair records, they said they would do a review of my banding, but that whatever the outcome I would not be able to appeal against it - again because of the six months 'Out of Time' rule I guess. I suspect many people hadn't a clue of understanding about the various Bands when the Council Tax was introduced, as it was rushed in so quickly, and in any case, Council Taxes were nowhere near so high then, so people just accepted whatever band they were in. With ever-increasing charges these days, people are questioning more and more. It seems to me from reading these Posts, that each VOA are following different rules! Some of them seem fairly easy and flexible to deal with and others are unbending! Ours in Coventry seem to be really stiff-necked! I can't see how any 'Review' can possibly be made without someone actually coming out to see the properties! I am still waiting for the person 'Dealing' with my appeal to get back to me as promised! :mad:

Mark-W_2

Guppy, thanks for the advice, i will ask the voa to provide actual sale prices for a few of the properties.
im very interested to see the voa evidence against my case, im hoping it arrives in the next day or so.

Quality_Time

I learned that two neighbours in houses larger than ours are banded in E, whereas we are three bedrooms and are banded F. I did appeal originally in 1993, but I was refused and the only two other residents that appealed were re-banded to E.

Using your website advice, I stated my case to Barking Valuation Office. Their response is:

"This is a second review ..... found nothing to suggest that the current council tax valuation list entry is inaccurate and I am not satisfied that a different valuation band should apply. In your letter you refer to numbers (XX and YY my road) which are in a lower band. There are occasions when other properties are in lower bands as a result of an error. Having reviewed the banding on your particular property, I am satisfied it is correct. I will consider whether the bandings of any other properties in the area need to be increased.

There is no right of appeal when a review of this nature is undertaken. The law provides limited opportunities for a formal challenge to a council tax valuation list entry. The reviews I have undertaken are not the result of formal challenges and cannot be appealed"

Can anyone help with advice on what to try next please?. Two questions I'd like help with:

1) Is there anyone on this site that has received a successful re-valuation from Barking Valuation Office?

2) Can I find out on what basis the other two residents in larger houses had grounds for a reduction in council tax?

Thanks.

vivatifosi

Hi Mark,

I was at tribunal this week and was surprised that they took the garage out of the equation for the value of my property. I don't know if this is the case for all properties, but I was told by the Tribunal panel that my garage in a bloc was not included in the value of the house. That may help you with your appeal and make for a more like-for-like comparison in terms of the houses you have listed.

Also, when the VOA sends the evidence that they are planning to use against you. You can then ask them for corresponding evidence on an equal number of houses. I had to go into their offices and look at the details myself (not allowed to copy anything, but can make notes), this should give you the square meterage and their value, plus type (detached, end of terraced, semi etc). When I asked the officer how many people take advantage of this I was told very few. I found this evidence very useful at tribunal.

Your property is probably older, but on the off-chance it was built in 1991, you can strip the cost of white goods and carpets/curtains/floorcoverings which the developer may have added out of the cost which also helps to get the price down.

Good luck for the 21st!

vivatifosi

If the VOA won't give you information on previous appeals, this information can be available in the public domain. The VOA websites lists the properties on which appeals have previously been made. Find out which houses have had previous tribunals on them and then check the Valuation Tribunal Service website at http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/listings-decisions/index.html as this lists the decisions made and why. You should be able to find out some information in terms of why they took a decision and also get a flavour for the types of decisions made in your area.

Good luck!

vivatifosi

Let's try that again:

Here's the website for the VTS website where you can view previous decisions

http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/listings-decisions/index.html

Mark-W_2

vivatifosi,

thanks for the info, the voa evidence arrived today.
There are 9 properties including mine that have been used for comparison, despite the fact that 3 of them are band C.
I pressume that this is to show that my property would be significantly more.

I will draw up a list of the 9 most comparible to my property and speak to the voa about obtaining the details.
Thanks for the link aswell, some usefull info on there.

Is there any evidence that a Pub would adversely affect the value of a property?
I have a noisey pub about 100 yards from my house that has live band 2 nights a weekend a licence til 12.


:beer:

vivatifosi

Good question Mark. I had a different but similar problem when I was in tribunal where something had materially happened in my local environment that wasn't there at the time of the initial valuation. I have read other cases on the VTS website - both won and lost - with similar problems. I don't think that there would be any harm in mentioning it, but my belief from what they said in mine is that they will only take it into consideration if you have evidence that it could affect their value. One way to do this may be to look at other properties near the pub. These don't have to be the same as yours, but if you can establish that there is a price difference between those properties and ones further away then that could help argue the case with relevance to your property.

Something I forgot to mention yesterday. The VTS have DVDs which you can borrow that show the format of a typical tribunal. It is well worth getting hold of one of these so you know what to expect. You will have a choice in terms of who goes first with evidence. If you know that you won't be too nervous and can think on your feet I would strongly suggest going second. This gives you a chance to hear what the VOA says and then dismantle it in your argument. They will have a right to question you on your evidence, but they won't have a right to introduce new material facts to their argument.