Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

jamesiebabie

marc_ely wrote: »

Hi

I've been trying to reduce my council tax band and so far it's now worked. I thought I'd see if people think that I have reached the end of the road with this one. Apologies for the rather long post.

I moved into my house about 4 years ago. All the houses in the street are individual, or in pairs, we are in East Cambridgeshire.
The house is band-F which I always thought rather high, so when I discovered that you can get it re-valued I thought I'd look into it.

I found the historical price for the house when council tax was introduced was more like £110k, in band-E. I backtracked from the price I paid 4 years ago, and current valuations now (we're just going on the market again). Both gave me £110k more or less.
So then I checked the street. I was astonished to find BIGGER houses than mine just a few doors away in band-E. Not just one or two either, an entire close round the corner are all band-E.

So I presented all the info to the VOA, including annotated satellite images of the houses etc About 7 pages of info in all.

The reply came back looking like it had been typed by a robot, telling me that band-F was very fair and that the other houses were according to their "records" smaller than mine.

So I called them to discuss this, and they sent out an accessor. She measured my house and I then showed her the others. She agreed that it was "very fishy" indeed that they were banded lower, whilst being obviously larger. She even took a photo of one of the other houses.

So two weeks later I receive another letter telling me that my house is the size they thought it was, and again, her records show that the other houses were according to their "records" smaller than mine. They tried to skirt the issue by trying to tell me that the houses must have been extended. This is plainly rubbish since two of the large band-E's are identical properties.
She also maintains that the property was in band-F in terms of price, quoting that a "smaller property" in the street sold for £121k around the time council tax was introduced.

Their "records" are obviously wrong on some of these properties. There is no shadow of doubt that there are larger houses in lower bands just a couple of doors away.

But if I've gone this far does anyone think it's worth going further?
The next step would be to surreptitiously measure the other houses and submit this new evidence. But they appear to have made their decision and as far as I can see there is no further appeal route. Is this correct?

Regards
Marc

Marc,

This is one of those interesting ones, where the VOA database, is probably not as good as they would like it to be. The VOA have two methods of measuring properties Effective floor area [EFA] for flats and Gross External Area [GEA] for houses, however, historically various VOA offices did not use both methods, but one or the other, more likely, using EFA [which gives a smaller area] and these figures can still be found on the VOA databases in some cases. The VOA have massive task [nearly impossible] to correct all these figures as they have no way of identifying if the measurement is GEA or EFA. So when the caseworker talks to you about the other houses are smaller, I would bet a few quid that they are on EFA. You can request all the sizes of the properties you are interested in by using the Freedom of Information Act and you yourself will be able to spot the possible errors and make sure you request the property that they quoted to you.

As and when you have the info to hand, PM me and I will try and help you to identify those properties on EFA and that may be a point to use. I have helped others before to do this and they have reduced their band on the back of the analysis.

I hope I can help.

J

tarinilie

It's interesting that there has not been much comment on this avenue for getting a valid proposal accepted by the VOA.

It is my understanding you can appeal within 6 months of a 'relevant' Valuation Tribunal Decision if you are barred from making an appeal on the 'outside 6 month rule' relating to occupancy.

Has anyone tried this approach. I'm not sure to what extent VOA's are interpreting the 'relevancy' but it could be worth a go I expect if all else fails?

the VTS website is http://valuation-tribunals.gov.uk

Tarin

Zebedeee

tarinilie wrote: »

It's interesting that there has not been much comment on this avenue for getting a valid proposal accepted by the VOA.

It is my understanding you can appeal within 6 months of a 'relevant' Valuation Tribunal Decision if you are barred from making an appeal on the 'outside 6 month rule' relating to occupancy.

Has anyone tried this approach. I'm not sure to what extent VOA's are interpreting the 'relevancy' but it could be worth a go I expect if all else fails?

the VTS website is http://valuation-tribunals.gov.uk

Tarin

Yes, I did this, and it got us back in the game again. I found a property within our local council area of a simillar type and simillar area (edge of town, newish residential estate, etc.) which had been in the same band as us but was moved down a band at a tribunal, despite it being bigger than ours. Seemed relevant enough to me and the VOA started looking at ours again. They sent someone out to look at our house, whereas before they had just sent standard letters. Unfortunately, they still don't see things the way we do, but at least it now means we can get a proper tribunal.

I've been at this for about 7 months and all the stories on the 'Success' thread are getting on my nerves! One day, it may be me....

Maisie

Zebedeee wrote: »

Yes, I did this, and it got us back in the game again. I found a property within our local council area of a simillar type and simillar area (edge of town, newish residential estate, etc.) which had been in the same band as us but was moved down a band at a tribunal, despite it being bigger than ours. Seemed relevant enough to me and the VOA started looking at ours again. They sent someone out to look at our house, whereas before they had just sent standard letters. Unfortunately, they still don't see things the way we do, but at least it now means we can get a proper tribunal.

I've been at this for about 7 months and all the stories on the 'Success' thread are getting on my nerves! One day, it may be me....

Zebedee the Success posts get on my nerves too so I don't read them anymore. And I was the original poster !!

You suggested the valuation tribunals before and I'm still looking for one in this area.

Waiting for a reply to another letter to VOA too. See what they say this time.

Good luck with your ongoing appeal.

Maisie

guppy

Dribble wrote: »

It's a mistake to get bogged down with 'measurements'. It's actual 'sales' that count. A lot of waffle is coming out of VOA offices about square metres of living space when it's 'Values' in the area that matters. i.e:

You need similar properties with proof of a sales, but general values at postcode level will be good evidence at a tribunal if you are obviously well within a band range.

Good point, Dribble.

Obviously people pay more for bigger houses, and after location I'd say its probably the main factor affecting value.

But...a few square metres, e.g. such as a small ground floor extension, is unlikely to justify a different banding, and things such as modernisation, bigger plot and general "attractiveness" are just as likely to come in to play.

So...as Dribble says, don't get too bogged down in size, its overall value that matters. If the difference in size isn't visible without measuring would a potential buyer pay more?

Most people don't calculate the square footage before making an offer!

Dribble_2

Debating 1991 values can get pretty silly. Identical properties in my area are banded differently simply by the postcode areas.....which can be literally metres apart. Views,close proximity to shops and amenities etc can all be reasons to realise higher prices regardless of room sizes.
Extremes such as four-bedroom,detached,double garage etc,etc houses are banded the same as small,single (integral) garage bungalows locally.It's ridiculous.
You have to argue the case and present proof from 1991 to get anywhere.Try looking back at a few successful tribunal cases to see how conclusions are reached. General price trends seem to be ignored when actual price comparisons are discussed.

Maisie

Same thing with bigger houses in this area and at lower and same bands.
House like ours 2 doors along up for sale at £210K and that's the asking price. No parking space and can't park on road. (we're on a green). Have to rent a council garage at nearly £9 a week. We're a small terraced house and back garden is on a steep hill so mostly unusable. We're D band.

Others with garages and other parking space/ more bedrooms/larger flat gardens/better views/ more land on a C band. One selling for nearly £300K in 2006. Ridiculious for voa to compare the two houses and one on a lower band.

When I told the voa they said the others were 'incorrect'. I want my band lowered as they've had done whether it's incorrect or not.

frugalpam

Hi,

I'm in the process of asking for my banding to be reassessed. In the letter the local VOA have sent me, they have said

"If I am satisfied that no alteration is appropriate, I will let you know by letter but would advise you that if this is the outcome, you will not be able to appeal against my decision

I've been reading some of the success stories on the Board, and someone in the same County as myself has said that originally, the Listing Officer declined to place them in another band, but that they appealed within the 'statutory 21 days' and won. I'm a bit confused how all this works - can I appeal (if they turn me down), and how do I do that? :think:

Many thanks for any advice you can give me,

Pam

MinMoz

I too am getting very frustrated at the apparent processes they have in place.

Now in the 8th month of chasing this (taken the last few weeks off as boredom set in).

The threatened appeal that didnt happen has now passed and the VOA have advised that they are happy with my banding. The house through the wall, despite being larger and having 1 more bed and bathroom, is the band below me - described by the VOA as their good fortune.

Unlike some of you guys I have the benefit is living in an estate with about 100 identical houses. Having looked at their Website it appears that there are 6 houses that have been rebanded (or reviewed) since 1991 - the majority of which are larger than mine.

I am now going with this argument. It doesnt make much difference to the monthly outgoings to go down a band but there is a principal involved!!

Surely this appraoch will be successful or are they maybe changing their approach after receiving so much correspondence? If so can they do this?? Probably a law unto themselves just like the councils!

Jib_Jib

Hi
We tried to pursue this as our neighbours with bigger land are all on Band B. Was told that there's nothing we can do about it by the VOA people and we couldnt appeal against it. Is that the end of it or is there anything we can do?

Many thanks
Jib Jib