root canal treatment - NHS and private costs & pros and cons

ouchheather

Thank you - at least I know I should challenge it

stolt

Hi everyone kinda hard to explain when i was about 11 i had a brace fitted and 4 teeth removed, they took out he second to last tooth at the back, this has meant that the end tooth has leant forward over time and left a slight V between it and the next tooth and there is decay right on the bone, the hygeniest mentioned it to the dentist last time and he took a look and a x ray and mess had a little poke around and just said i'm surprised you it hasnt been sensitive (which it hadnt) since i went about 3 weeks back its been very sensitive to cold and over the last two days a real dull pain is here with a vengence and today i booked myself in, the dentist x rayed my tooth and showed me and said it will need RCT, he said its bascially when it becomes unbearable give me a call and we will get it started (£300 for RCT appx andthen £91 for the filling afterwards), i'm lucky that i had some private health insurance with work but the xray today and hygenist visits means that i only have about £200 left for dental treatment. Not looking forward to it but its killing me sitting here at work so going to try and book me in to start this week.

Think its shocking that I've paid all that National insurance and have touch wood been pretty healthy over the years and when i come to need it i cant get my teeth looked at on the NHS and i have pay for my teeth to be looked at and fixed.

Toothsmith

Well, there's an election coming up.

The only time politicians ever really even make a pretence of 'caring' about how we feel.

If any minister is making a visit to a place near you (As it's only in the marginals that they truely 'care') then get down there and completely embarass them in front of the telly cameras.

It's the only way to make it an issue!

usignuolo

My OH had a swelling on his face and toothache so took himself off to the dentist. He was confirmed to have an abcess (under a lower back molar) but the dentist said he would not prescribe antibiotics as the swelling had gone down and it was not very painful. He recommended another dentist locally to do the root canal.

My OH paid around £150 to his own dentist for the consultation to cover "advice", X-rays, asmall filling and a clean. He then went off to the recommended dentist about the root canal which involved another consultation with more X rays which cost another £130. He was then told he needed a root canal which could cost between £730-£850 depending on whether it took one or two visits. The initial cost could be deducted from the treatment if he went ahead.

There are a number of things worrying us here.

My OH has now paid £280 without progressing his treatment in any significant ways.

He does not have medical health insurance but there are no NHS dentists near us.

Looking it up on the web we find the local root canal "specialists" my OH was referred to, are part of a new business franchise set up by a Harley Street consultant. The same consultant our dentist refers you to if you need more advanced treatment.

It is hard to avoid the suspicion that our dentist is either getting a referral fee or has his own money invested in this new "specialist" operation - which is only 10 minutes from his own premises. They always used to do root canal surgery there, it is on their price list for £350.

Now instead my OH has been referred to a new practice nearby specialising in this, set up by someone we know has a business connection with our dentist, and all of a sudden it costs £850.

My OH is a bit torn as he feels if he goes to another dentist, there will be another consultation fee and he may still end up paying as much as the outstanding £600-£700 he might pay if he now went ahead.

Anyone got any advice? Or anyone know a dentist they can recommend for root canal treatment, reasonably priced, in SW London?

PS Just to add, it is not the Harley Street consultant who would be doing the root canal for £750+ - it is a young overseas dentist at the new root canal specialists. He is so new to the surgery that his CV has not been posted up yet. Nearly all the dentists at the root canal specialists recommended are from overseas so it is not really possible to trace their careers in the UK. It was only set up late last year.

Toothsmith

The prices sound reasonable for what you're getting.

Dentist really shouldn't be receiving a referral fee - they're not ethical.

If he's connected financially with the practice he should probably let you know as well.

Molar teeth can be complicated, so it's probably a kosher referral, but you really should be with a dentist you have complete trust in, or are you just naturally suspicious?

welshdent

I am with toothsmith on that. I dont know any dentists that get a referral fee. The closest we get to a kick back is the odd bottle of wine or cake. Sometimes we get taken out for a meal. I know it may SEEM like nothing has been done for those 2 charges already paid but what you need to bear in mind is they are all independent. The first dentist carried out work namely the examination, x rays and clean up. All of which require surgery time. Its is GOOD that they did not prescribe anti biotics. These are often far too liberally dished out inappropriately. In the case such as this it would have been an inappropriate prescription. re the second dentist ... they HAVE to assess the tooth first. you can not simply go in blindly to these things especially in notoriously difficult molar teeth. Therefore again ... clinical surgery time etc. He is being seen on a private basis too so no NHS conflict. Molar endodontics is a skill that few dentists I know like to practice and would rather refer them all out. NHS dentists are not really given a choice in the matter so have to relluctantly take these on. Private however is less of an issue so its quite responsible they are being referred on if the original dentist is not happy doing them for their patients best interests.

usignuolo

I suppose I am naturally a bit suspicious but when your dentist, who is very experienced and has a very well equipped group practice and has always done root canals in the past, suddenly starts referring you to a specialist group, nearby, just set up by the Harley Street consultant he usually refers people to, well....

My OH is concerned that the person who would be doing the work has no known profile as he is only recently arrived from overseas. He did ask his own dentist about him and all he was told was that he was sure they were all very competent there.

And is £750-£850 the going rate for root canals nowadays. I realise they are complicated things but it seems like only 2 years ago they were being priced at around £450 and now they are £850. And I am concerned that we know nothing about the dentists being used to carry out this work.

Toothsmith

You can (And maybe should) check that the person working on you is registered with the General Dental Council here.

http://www.gdc-uk.net/searchregister/

This will also tell you if they are a registered specialist as well.

(To practice dentistry in this country, and to call themselves a 'specialist' they MUST be registered with the GDC, and registered as a specialist.)

welshdent

For a molar tooth with a specialist then yes the prices quoted are reasonable. BUT ... as toothsmith said, check they are actually a specialist. I have looked in to getting on the specialist list for endodontics and its a hard slog to the point I most likely wont be doing it. For that sort of money with someone to that level I would expect they would be doing things with a microscope and many other toys that the average dentists wouldnt have. To give you a guideline of the costs involved, I recently bought a mid range microscope and its costing over £15K. The high end root filling systems to actually fill the canals can sometimes cost as much as £4k to purchase. The files used could be as much as £100 if a lot are used. Then you have costs of staffing. Its a very time demanding process and as such running a surgery for 2 hours is expensive. Endodontics is not always appreciated as a high end skill as you do not get a lovely gleaming smile after and it can often be quite uncomfortable to the individual with no absolute guarantee of success. That doesnt negate how expensive it is to provide the treatment hence the costs involved to the patient. Which is yet more indication of the disdain that the government treat NHS endodontics by providing a grand total of around £80 max to do the whole thing and expect similar results!! Sorry soap box moment there!!

usignuolo

OH didn't catch his specialist endontologist's surname and the guy is so new he is not yet on their website. OHs going to chase it up and look him up. What would be the basic level of qualifications he should expect him to have given the £875 cost for his services?

(Also there is a rider on the website saying it will be the responsibility of patient's own dentist to provide an appropriate permanent filling or crown following the early stages of healing - and this is not included in the price. So more costs there. Is this usual?)