List The Benefits You Receive. Can the state afford them?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Cleaver wrote: »

You kind of will use the NHS then, as pretty much all private hospitals use NHS staff, equipment and infrastructure. .

Very true.

It just means I pay for it twice.

PasturesNew

I'm costing nothing.

I wasn't born in a hospital, I was educated to 16 in a school in the 60s/70s, then did 2 years full-time vocational college (typing). Private dentist (open lists seem to be for kids only). I go to the Doctor about once every 10 years. Never stayed in a hospital, never broken anything. Didn't do a degree.

Cleaver

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Very true.

It just means I pay for it twice.

Haha! That is true.

You will notice that pretty much all private hospitals that provide complex, dangerous or modern surgical procedures locate themselves within easy travelling distance of an NHS Trust. Two reasons:

1) The NHS staff who opt to do private work don't have far to travel
2) When the surgery goes wrong (I believe private hospitals have a higher error rate for surgery than NHS organisations) they have a hospital fairly close with all the staff, equipment and specialist theatres to rush the person to and get them sorted.

I spose with private you do get your own room, better food and their brochures are nice. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

chucky

PasturesNew wrote: »

I'm costing nothing

yeah but Brit thinks you're well fit innit!!!

Cleaver

PasturesNew wrote: »

I'm costing nothing.

I wasn't born in a hospital, I was educated to 16 in a school in the 60s/70s, then did 2 years full-time vocational college (typing). Private dentist (open lists seem to be for kids only). I go to the Doctor about once every 10 years. Never stayed in a hospital, never broken anything. Didn't do a degree.

Stay with me here, as this is a bit of an odd point to make...

...but...

...the way our country is through the tax system kind of benefits every single one of us in a roundabout way, even if you don't get things individually. You have a job doing IT stuff with companies and individuals. The hospitals, schools, transport networks, IT Infrastructures, education systems, military forces, welfare spending, state pensions and all the other million things the government have a hand in all allow people to go about their everyday lives and get stuff done. I believe Hamish has mentioned that he's in some sort of management position, so presumably has staff under him (chortle) so maybe their access to health, education, benefits, transport etc. enables Hamish to have them work for him. A bit of a utopian view, but you know what I'm getting at. What's good for society is good for everyone.

By the way, this isn't to say that I think we have a perfect taxation and spend system, I think it's clear that for 15 years we've p*ssed tax money up the wall and it needs to be cut back.

silvercar

PasturesNew wrote: »

I'm costing nothing.

I wasn't born in a hospital, I was educated to 16 in a school in the 60s/70s, then did 2 years full-time vocational college (typing). Private dentist (open lists seem to be for kids only). I go to the Doctor about once every 10 years. Never stayed in a hospital, never broken anything. Didn't do a degree.

You've missed the sentiment of the thread and only answered Hamish's original posting.

Your meant to say you get your bins emptied, your roads cleaned, your streets lit etc. You had free schooling and have the availability of A&E should you need it, libraries etc.

globalds

The biggest benefit I receive every month is that the government are paying 80% of my mortgage because I am on a tracker.

If interest rates were anywhere near the true cost of lending I would really be feeling the credit crunch.

In mitigation I have used this extra cash to over pay ..Thus hopefully getting me off this state benefit sooner rather than later.

vivatifosi

My thoughts on this have changed so much over the past six years you wouldn't believe. I've always considered myself self-sufficient. High rate tax payer for about 20 years, didn't go to uni from school - did Open Uni, state will have subsidised that but not to the tune of full education - and the full cost of my masters degree was paid by my former employers. Was unemployed once for 2 weeks when I was about 18 and got less than £100. I then set up my own business but the timing sucked. The point is, I never knew what it was like to struggle and as long as I worked money was always there. Maybe I looked down on those who were worse off than me, I don't know. In reality I didn't really come into contact with them.

The week I left my former employer and set up my own business I went on holiday and while away a lump came up on my skin. Within a year I was in hospital (private initial diagnosis, NHS treatment) and having it cut out. I then spent ages recouperating, unable to claim any bens because I ran my own company by then. When I looked at re-entering the job market I was unemployable, at the same time part of my business was hit by the credit crunch, the other part by recession, while the whole was hit by me not being able to run it for a prolonged period. My timing sucks it has to be said. It took ages to get back into work and an all-clear before anyone would employ me. Working with the public I now see a lot of society that people like me never used to know existed. Some undoubtedly are the f eckless, but there are a lot of people I really worry about. Some have very low IQs so don't know how to claim benefits, some have no money whatsoever yet have to come into a library and spend £10 to print out a form because they are the wrong side of the digital divide and that's the only way the state will now deal with them, a lot are mentally ill. I worry much more about how they will fare than about a few relatively well off people not getting cb.

In summary, I never had much need for the state, but heaven help all of us if we ever have a serious need for a safety net. I don't want any of us to fall through a hole in the net where it used to be well maintained. If the cost of doing so is taxing the higher paid, so be it, I hope to be rejoining them at some point when the market picks up again. Equally I'm with those who say that those taking the p*ss should be reined in significantly.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Cleaver wrote: »

I believe Hamish has mentioned that he's in some sort of management position, so presumably has staff under him (chortle) so maybe their access to health, education, benefits, transport etc. enables Hamish to have them work for him. A bit of a utopian view, but you know what I'm getting at. What's good for society is good for everyone.

Your premise appears to be that low paid workers need state subsidy for benefits and transport.

A subsidy that comes from the taxation imposed on companies and individuals.

Why not lower the tax rate, remove the subsidies, and raise the minimum wage to a living wage which enables people to pay for these things themselves.

Cost to companies would be broadly neutral, cost to the state would be less as there is no administration involved in the redistribution of wealth. Benefit to the people concerned and society as a whole would be huge, as it fosters a sense of personal responsbility and removes reliance on the state and reduces the benefits/entitlement culture.

Jacey53

bendix wrote: »

Utterly ridiculous argument. There is a fundamental difference between using basic state services which are unavoidable such as airport services and roads and education when, as a minor, you can't make personal choices about how you are educated (and which are more than covered by our taxes) compared to taking monetary benefits when you don't - in theory - need them.

THAT, i suspect, is the point of the thread, and you full well know that.

It has been sparked by the debate started by carolt's revelation of her anger at losing child benefits, despite it becoming apparent that by any logical and moral argument, her family's earning position in the top 10% of households in the country suggests she doesn't need them.

To compare getting cash benefits to using the roads is intellectually vapid.

And, for the record, I have never used the NHS since being born. I'm afraid, i didnt have the powers of persuasion to fully articulate my case at the time.

You obviously disapprove of the government giving state benefits to people who do not need them.

What about the government reducing taxes for those who are on a high income already? Perhaps those people should refuse such a benefit (in the general sense of the word)

There never seems to be the same level of indignation about such an occurrence.