Council Tax, Students and HMO's

ojb_2

I returned home from work today to find a bill from the council demanding £800 in council tax or a court summons awaits. This being apparently owed from my recent university house share. I require help in whether I should actually be expected to pay any of this let alone all of it as they demand?

The background is that I signed a joint tenancy with two fellow students from June 09 - June 10. Being all students, provided we show documents to signify this, then we were obviously not expected to pay a penny. The problems started when one fellow housemate dropped of his course and being a joint tenancy and a 'good' mate, promptly dissapeared. This left us footing the bill for a month until a new tenant was found. This tenant was not a student and lived in the house for a period of months before leaving in a hurry and was then replaced by another non-student who finished off the tenancy. Apparently because we had these non-students living in the house at various times i am now liable for an £800 bill. My question is that surely these two people are liable for the bills, the periods of time they were in the house? In my contract it does state that council tax is a responsibility of the tenant, but as we never re-signed a tenancy with the new tenants then surely it must become a house of multiple occupancy (as we were on seperate tenancies) and the landlord or the non student must be culpible.

Sorry if all the facts are a bit scattered. I would very much appreciate any help or advice anyone can provide.

Duncombe

Who is the council tax bill addressed to?

If you have provided the council with legitimate evidence that you are exempt from paying CT, then you are not responsible for paying any.

You are correct in that it is the responsbility of your (ex) housemates to pay.

Did your landlord write to the council on your behalf when you started the tennacy and inform them you had moved into their property and would be intouch re council tax?

CIS

In my contract it does state that council tax is a responsibility of the tenant, but as we never re-signed a tenancy with the new tenants then surely it must become a house of multiple occupancy (as we were on seperate tenancies) and the landlord or the non student must be culpible

The contract cannot over-rule council tax legisaltion.

You are correct in that it is the responsbility of your (ex) housemates to pay.

Probably correct but there is a chance it is not.

Depending on the contract the new occs had with the L/L it may be that the OP and the joint tenants had the higher interest in the property and would therefore be liable even if they were students. I suspect this is the route the council are taking in that the OP had the higher interest and would be liable.

The problems started when one fellow housemate dropped of his course and being a joint tenancy and a 'good' mate, promptly dissapeared.

If he was a non -student and resident then he would be liable for the charge from the end of his ocurse until the date he vacated as he was a joint tenant with yourselves.

This left us footing the bill for a month until a new tenant was found. This tenant was not a student and lived in the house for a period of months before leaving in a hurry and was then replaced by another non-student who finished off the tenancy

This is the point where the council seem to have decided that you held the higher interest in the property.

ojb_2

Duncombe:
'Who is the council tax bill addressed to?'

The Bill is addressed to myself and my fellow student tenant and was sent to my home address, which must have been provided by the landlady or university.

'Did your landlord write to the council on your behalf when you started the tennacy and inform them you had moved into their property and would be intouch re council tax?'

The LL got our paperwork proving we were students and presented it to the council showing that we should pay none.

CIS

'The contract cannot over-rule council tax legisaltion'.

Is it not legislation that if the house is deemed to be of multiple occupancy then the LL should pay the council tax, then gather back this fee through increase in rent? And surely the house must be deemed multiple occupancy if there are 3 non-related persons living together on 2 seperate tenancies?


'Probably correct but there is a chance it is not.

Depending on the contract the new occs had with the L/L it may be that the OP and the joint tenants had the higher interest in the property and would therefore be liable even if they were students. I suspect this is the route the council are taking in that the OP had the higher interest and would be liable.'

But surely the non-student is higher on the hierarchy of responsibility as without themselves in the property then there would be no council tax?

'If he was a non -student and resident then he would be liable for the charge from the end of his ocurse until the date he vacated as he was a joint tenant with yourselves.'

My 'friend' never actually moved in. We signed the tenancy which started in June and all went home for summer before moving in in September, at which point he informed me that he'd been thrown off his course and was dissapearing. So technically for those 4 months there were only students there so could we write that £200 off? Also I'm fairly certain the landlord may have done the following tenants on a cash in hand basis and not declared them to the council (only a theory) and the council figured out that someone was living there through a slip of the tongue on the phone. So if we could get our tenants agreement together, then could we not send this off along with our student statuses and the ex-student proof that he never moved in to try and make this go away?

Admittedly that last argument is a little weak, but I am not in possession of all the facts. I haven't actually yet called the council to establish who they are trying to bill me for (although from the size of the bill it muct be 12 months). This is because I don't live at the forwarding address and am still working out whether to dissappear myself as everyone seems to have. But with a threat of court action and debt collectors, I don't really see this as an option as I don't fancy being black listed.

'This is the point where the council seem to have decided that you held the higher interest in the property.'

Unfortunately I suppose that makes sense in that the two of us students outnumbered the non student tenant.



Thanks for your feedback, OJB

CIS

Is it not legislation that if the house is deemed to be of multiple occupancy then the LL should pay the council tax, then gather back this fee through increase in rent? And surely the house must be deemed multiple occupancy if there are 3 non-related persons living together on 2 seperate tenancies?

If its an HMO you are correct that the L/L is liable but an HMO for council tax does not the use the same rules as for planning legislation (which looks at relationship between the occs). Council Tax HMO's are based on the type of tenancy you have.

Council Tax (Liability for Owners) regulations 1992 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/551/introduction/made

But surely the non-student is higher on the hierarchy of responsibility as without themselves in the property then there would be no council tax?

The hierarchy of liability (section 6 of the local government finance act 1992) does not consider anything other than what type of interest (tenant/freeholder/leaseholder etc) you have in the property.

My 'friend' never actually moved in. We signed the tenancy which started in June and all went home for summer before moving in in September, at which point he informed me that he'd been thrown off his course and was dissapearing. So technically for those 4 months there were only students there so could we write that £200 off?

If he never moved in then he was never resident and cannot be considered as being resident for council tax purposes whilst there are other occupiers who are actually resident in the property.

This is because I don't live at the forwarding address and am still working out whether to dissappear myself as everyone seems to have. But with a threat of court action and debt collectors, I don't really see this as an option as I don't fancy being black listed.

As good as it may sound its probably not a good idea in the long term. These days councils use the likes of experian and similar to trace people and it can be relatively easy to so with their records.

Unfortunately I suppose that makes sense in that the two of us students outnumbered the non student tenant.

It more comes down to the council thinking that you held the higher interest in the property.

ojb_2

'If he never moved in then he was never resident and cannot be considered as being resident for council tax purposes whilst there are other occupiers who are actually resident in the property.'

So if we can prove that the drop-out student never moved in then we should, in theory, be able to write off a good period of months and reduce the bill? This also begs the question of whether they were actually aware of the following tenants moving in, as i wouldn't have put it past my LL to have done cash in hand. Thus if we could prove that the students were students and the drop-out never moved in, then they have no case. This would obviously fail if they knew of the latter tenants but it may be a good starter probe in case the councils facts aren't as deep as they could be.

'If its an HMO you are correct that the L/L is liable but an HMO for council tax does not the use the same rules as for planning legislation (which looks at relationship between the occs). Council Tax HMO's are based on the type of tenancy you have.'


So in council tax opinion, does my house constitute a multiple occupancy? As obviously myself and the other main student were friends. But we had rare contact with the later tenants, in fact I was barely aware of their first names if it wasn't for the LL.



Do you think I have anything to build a case on or should I admit defeat? £800 is a lot to me as I owe £25k in student loans and am not yet back in black in my student overdraft. I would obviously like to not pay or a much reduced amount, but if it looks like a waste of time then I would be much better spending that time in employment and earning money to cover the debts.

CIS

So in council tax opinion, does my house constitute a multiple occupancy? As obviously myself and the other main student were friends. But we had rare contact with the later tenants, in fact I was barely aware of their first names if it wasn't for the LL.

It depends on your tenancy agreements - an HMO is defined (under the 1993 ammendment) as:

“Houses in multiple occupation, etc

Class C a dwelling which
(a)

was originally constructed or subsequently adapted for occupation by persons who do not constitute a single household;

and
(b)

is inhabited by a person who, or by two or more persons each of whom either—
(i)

is a tenant of, or has a licence to occupy, part only of the dwelling; or
(ii)

has a licence to occupy, but is not liable (whether alone or jointly with other persons) to pay rent or a licence fee in respect of, the dwelling as a whole.”.

archie9uk

I feel that you may be over-analysing this a bit before you have actually spoken to the council. Would it not be worthwhile just ringing and saying "I've had a bill for the period my housemate and I were students - please can you explain why I've been sent this?"?

You never know, they might have just got mixed up and not realised it was a student property. And if your landlord was getting cash in hand for the non-students that subsequently moved in, then they wouldn't be on record, so problem solved. Any wrongdoing would be entirely on the side of your landlord if something came to light later...