Feed in Tariffs for pioneers

Mcfi5dhc

Touchy subject for some, therefore I keep fairly quiet on the subject.

For those "not in the know", people who fitted solar panels and windturbines before the announcement of FiT were moved to a lower rate of FiT than new people. So all new people get 41.3p, and all pioneers get 9p, ok.

Some people, myself included, thought this was unfair. So did David Cameron, and Nick Clegg - great, we vote for them, if they get in, they should pay pioneers the same rate as everyone. Fine.

Except they backtracked on it.

I have had lots of emails back and forth with DECC and Chris Huhne, but last night I basically got to the nuts of it. They are concerned with the negative impact of FIT for pioneers on UK Customers electricity bills.

So, if they pay us, everyones bills will have to rise by X, where X is an unknown.

So, how much is X?
I thought I'd have a stab at calculating it.

From yougen.co.uk's website (excellent website by the way), they reckon there are some 7500 pioneers out there who are getting 9p instead of 41.3p (difference = 32.3p)

Now, we are all going to have different systems, so I based my calculations on my own system with no better info to go on. Last year I generated 1226 units.

So I lose out in the first year by 32.3p * 1226 = £395.998, or £396:eek:

The collective pioneers would therefore lose out on £395.998*7500 = £2,969,985

So back to the letter they sent me, DECC are concerned about the amount it would increase each persons electric bill.

I have no idea how many households there are, but I guessed at 20 million

So, £2,969,985 / 20,000,000 equals £0.15 (or near enough)

But, the FIT isn't paid by homeowners only, business and government use the bulk of electricity, so I reckon homeowners use 1/3 of all electric, therefore if they paid pioneers, it would cost 5p per household per year.

OK, so I can accept that me having solar panels, and you having to pay for it, may seem a little bit unfair. But I am just a homeowner. I am not ISIS, ASG or British Gas who are all jumping on the FiT bandwagon, and will ultimately cost you far far more.

But, lets keep thinking about the numbers. Everyone has to pay for FITs (conversely, if we don't hit our green targets, the whole country has to pay anyway). So we should at some point see this as a debit on our bills (or maybe blended in with the cost per unit). I have heard figures banded around that FIT should cost everyone £8 a year.

If I have calculated correctly above, and boosting the numbers up for full FIT customers, it would mean that 7500 full FIT customers would cost each homeowner about 7p a year. So for £8 a year costs would work out at roughly 850,000 people having wind turbines or solar panels in this country. Which is a lot!

An we are nowhere near that

So does that mean we only have to pay 20p a year at the moment? or is it still £8? And did I make up the £8?

Well, if you made it to the bottom, well done. Well, are my figures right? Let the abuse begin...

NeverInDebt

But didnt you get a grant though unlike the many now on these new tarrifs

Some people may think its unfair that energy customers are paying over the odds to subside the current system all for the sake of the planet.

The very poorest of society by fact they are poor tend to have less impact on planets resources yet the more affluent who tend to be the ones using this scheme and use more of the planets resources benefit the most. I know there are free panels too but soon pays for that and it isnt the companies its us the consumer

Mcfi5dhc

I did get a grant, but the full FIT works out so much higher that they will earn more than double what I will receive (including grants) over the course of the FIT

Everyone is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to everyone having to pay. For example, if the country doesn't hit the green targets, then we as consumers will be handed down the fine. Therefore, we have to pay for green initiatives.

Back to the figures though, are they right?

NeverInDebt

So your 1st post is a little misleading as you failed to declare a grant so you wasn't actually comparing fairly

I hear what you saying about how little you get compared to those on the new scheme but that was the option back then.

I also find it unfair. I have to pay higher amount on my energy bills to subside this scheme, no one consulted me when it came to give a generous return of around 8% on the new FIT but they expect me to pay around 10% of my energy bill yet I don't go flying all over place and are fairly eco friendly as it is

My main co2 foot print is supplying energy to my home

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

I did get a grant, but the full FIT works out so much higher that they will earn more than double what I will receive (including grants) over the course of the FIT

Everyone is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to everyone having to pay. For example, if the country doesn't hit the green targets, then we as consumers will be handed down the fine. Therefore, we have to pay for green initiatives.

Back to the figures though, are they right?

Cardew

Where do we stop with retrospective grants?

I was a 'pioneer' and at my own expense fitted cavity wall insulation and loads of insulation in the attic. Now everyone gets a subsidy I believe - should I be able to claim that back?

I couldn't get scrappage allowance for my car, or new boiler etc etc.

I never got paternity leave when my kids were born. No child tax credits either.

I understand your disappointment that the new subsidies are better than the £2,500 you received, but you made an informed decision to fit solar PV.

If they allowed your 'claim' what will they do with the Renewable Heat Initiative(RHI) subsidies that are due to be adopted next April. There must be hundreds of thousands of people who have [STRIKE]been duped[/STRIKE] invested in solar thermal panels, and many others bought heat pumps and other heating that will qualify for RHI subsidies.(and none of these got £2,500 or any form of subsidy)

Loads of people have paid well over the odds to purchase 'Eco' houses.

If your claim was allowed, surely all of these would be entitled to have retrospective grants?

fatbikersbouncebetter

The issues may be how much you get back, but the bigger issue is the number of bogus direct sales companies that are getting in on this money maker. One Aquashield (try searching that name here) are selling already with NO chance of getting back the kind of income or return quoted. Warning Rant over.

Mcfi5dhc

I rightly expected some, shall we say, lack of agreement with me.

My point is:

Government makes a political carrot on a string before election to grab a few more votes

They then cancel it once elected and blames it on the bad publicity over the amounts it would increase peoples bills by each year to pay pioneers.

I calculate this at 5p per household per year BUT the government is already taking and estimated £8 a year out of our bills - so whats happening to the rest of the £8, because if my figures are right, at least £7.50 of this isn't get used, and the rest is going full FIT owners (fine) and BG/ASG/ISIS (not so fine)

victor2

I looked into solar panels recently and the idea of investing about £12K and breaking even over 14 years didn't appeal to me, so I'm staying as I am with everything coming off the grid. My thinking was that the technology is bound to get cheaper and more affordable. Sure, the FiT rates will drop, but at the end of the day I want to get my energy for less. If I'm a bit greener in the process, all the better.
So, it was your choice to be a pioneer in this field and that's what it cost you. That's my opinion anyway.

Mcfi5dhc

fatbikersbouncebetter wrote: »

The issues may be how much you get back, but the bigger issue is the number of bogus direct sales companies that are getting in on this money maker. One Aquashield (try searching that name here) are selling already with NO chance of getting back the kind of income or return quoted. Warning Rant over.

Do they sell solar PV or wind turbines?

Mcfi5dhc

victor2 wrote: »

So, it was your choice to be a pioneer in this field and that's what it cost you. That's my opinion anyway.

I agree with that, and after getting over the original disapointment, was quite settled with having the lower tariff.

But with both the Tories and LibDems volunteering to pay extra, my ears pricked up. And then back to the disapointment again.

When couldn't they have just left it alone? You generated - your choice. End of. No FIT that everyone has to pay for.

I'd be equally happy if they cancelled the whole thing tomorrow (for everyone!)

Cardew

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

I rightly expected some, shall we say, lack of agreement with me.

My point is:

Government makes a political carrot on a string before election to grab a few more votes

They then cancel it once elected and blames it on the bad publicity over the amounts it would increase peoples bills by each year to pay pioneers.

You make a lot of sense with your input to this forum.

Then you go and spoil it all by complaining that politicians don't honour the promises they made before being elected;)