Caught by an Inspector - HELP/advice needed

robt_2

taffy056 wrote: »

Its only a criminal offence if a court says it is

taffy056 wrote: »

But its still not a criminal offence until a court says so

taffy056 wrote: »

How can it be criminal offence until you have been found guilty ? The court determines if an offence has been committed or not, so of course they determine what is criminal or not, once as its determined if said person is guilty then a punishment is given.

Are you being serious?

Will you also say that shoplifting is not a criminal offence unless it goes to court and the person is found guilty? And that murder is not a criminal offence unless you are caught?

The OP's GF has already admitted she has committed the offence, there is nothing to find her guilty of.

You are mixing up breaking the law with getting a conviction.

thorsoak

gareth9358 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. We have already posted a letter of apology as we are sure this is not going to be dropped like smaller ticket offenses. We wanted to preempt any consideration of court with an offer to pay a fine.

Any more advice would be useful, high horses are not thorsoak.

G

When I paid more than £1,800 a year to travel to work, and would see the same people day after day jumping barriers, or pushing through with other people I am entitled to get on a high horse!

Believe me, regular commuters cheer when they see someone being pulled up for a habitual offence. The regular commuters know those who don't pay their way and will often point them out to inspectors.

Why should we subsidise your girlfriend?

spiro

thorsoak wrote: »

When I paid more than £1,800 a year to travel to work, and would see the same people day after day jumping barriers, or pushing through with other people I am entitled to get on a high horse!

Believe me, regular commuters cheer when they see someone being pulled up for a habitual offence. The regular commuters know those who don't pay their way and will often point them out to inspectors.

Why should we subsidise your girlfriend?

I remember the case of someone who got shirty with a ticket inspector when he was asked to show his season ticket again because he had shut it before the inspector had looked at it. In that instance it was a b****y stupid thing to do as the inspector asked him to take it out of his wallet at which point the inspector discovered it was a photocopy. The guy had paid £000s for a season ticket, photocopied it and then cancelled the seaon ticket unused. Boy did they take him to the cleaners.

Stigy

taffy056 wrote: »

How can it be criminal offence until you have been found guilty ? The court determines if an offence has been committed or not, so of course they determine what is criminal or not, once as its determined if said person is guilty then a punishment is given.

Maybe we're getting our wires crossed here? Ignore whether she did or didn't do anything wrong here, even though we all know she did because she admitted it under caution, thus making it admissable in court.

I was talking about the offence itself, regardless of it being committed by anyone, is criminal. A defendant however, doesn't receive a conviction of an offence, unless given by a court. See what I'm saying now?

The purpose of a court is to give somebody a fair hearing, and I agree that only they can find somebody guilty of an offence, no matter what it is. On its own the 5.3(a) is a criminal offence, no court in the land has any ruling over that.

Country_Goose wrote:

Not exactly. If you commit an offence, it may be taken to court, or you may be offered a formal caution, a Penalty Notice (On the spot fine), or a conditional caution.

If it does go to court it is up to you: plead guilty and you are convicted and sentenced. Plead not guilty and have a trial - you may be found not guilty. If you are convicted, the court will sentence based on its guidleines.

And no, there is no way that you would go to Jail for fare dodging for a first offence. You would have to work really hard to get a custodial sentence.

And? I didn't say anything to the contrary, did I?

CountryGoose

Stigy wrote: »

And? I didn't say anything to the contrary, did I?

Yes you did.

Erm, no, a criminal offence is a criminal offence, laid down by Government.

No - it's laid down in Statute Law or from the Common Law. The Goverment may add to or amend the Statute Law, but it does to "lay it down"

The court just sanctions the relevent punishment when they find an offender guilty of an offence.

Courts do not sanction any punishment. They decide on an appropriate sentence after a conviction. This is very important and you should be very concerned, as more and more people are gaining the power to issue Penalty Notices without any legal process.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=NewsSplash&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED28%20Jun%202009%2021:00:22:647

Stigy

CountryGoose wrote: »

Yes you did.



No - it's laid down in Statute Law or from the Common Law. The Goverment may add to or amend the Statute Law, but it does to "lay it down"



Courts do not sanction any punishment. They decide on an appropriate sentence after a conviction. This is very important and you should be very concerned, as more and more people are gaining the power to issue Penalty Notices without any legal process.

Fair enough to the first part, but the second part just states what I already said using different wording!

Regarding Accredited Person at Night Clubs, or at night in a busy street in general, I fail to see how this will work, when you are unable to issue a PND or FPN to somebody who is under the influence of alcohol!

RevenueProtection

I advise you call 2 weeks after being cautioned as that's how long it takes for the officer to submit his report. The number for the office is: 0207 922 9194 - The best gentleman to speak to there is Ian Watkins, PM me for his mobile number (it's unfair on him to advertise it on the net so I'll only give it to those who need it the most). Best of luck, and remember, call ASAP and apologise for making the mistake and let them know how you're preventing the problem from happening again in the future (e.g. putting a travel card on your Oyster so you don't have to worry if you forget to touch-in etc...). You will get charged the fare and their costs (up to £50 I believe). Hope this helps!

spiro

RevenueProtection wrote: »

I advise you call 2 weeks after being cautioned as that's how long it takes for the officer to submit his report. The number for the office is: 0207 922 9194 - The best gentleman to speak to there is Ian Watkins, PM me for his mobile number (it's unfair on him to advertise it on the net so I'll only give it to those who need it the most). Best of luck, and remember, call ASAP and apologise for making the mistake and let them know how you're preventing the problem from happening again in the future (e.g. putting a travel card on your Oyster so you don't have to worry if you forget to touch-in etc...). You will get charged the fare and their costs (up to £50 I believe). Hope this helps!

As you appear to work for RP I believe it is possibly within the etiquette or rules of the forum that you include this in your singnature or make it clear in your post.

masterlumps

i think she should be charged with stupidity as well

RevenueProtection

spiro wrote: »

As you appear to work for RP I believe it is possibly within the etiquette or rules of the forum that you include this in your singnature or make it clear in your post.

Fair enough, though I do not work for Revenue Protection, just been a victim before and done plenty of research. I'll only be posting on topics like this advising people of who to contact. If you could also use this information please in case there's a post I may have missed? Many thanks.