Problem with a border collie

Becles

I've got two border collies - Bob aged 5 and Jack aged 11 months. Both have been socialised well as puppies and have been placid and friendly dogs up till now.

Had two instances with some Alsations about a month ago. It's two men with three Alsations who just let them run and think it is funny when they chase other dogs as "ho ho ho they just love to play" - except it's not playing IMO!

In the first case, all three dogs started chasing Bob. He slipped over as the grass was wet and they all jumped on top of him and he was terrified. He had slaver on his fur, but I'm not sure if he was bitten or if it had just rubbed off on him. There was no blood so definitely not a bad bite, but possibly a nip.

A couple of days later, we were near the bottom of the hill and my neighbour was walking at the top. I noticed the Alsations come running out of nowhere, and I managed to get Bob on the lead but one jumped on his back, then all three took off after Jack. He ran up the path and past my neighbour. The dogs all ran into the woods and disappeared but I could hear them crashing about. The men managed to get the Alsations back and left, and then Jack appeared a few minutes later. My neighbour had caught up by this point and she was concerned as she said there was pure fear in Jack's eyes and he was looked like he was running for his life.

Since then Bob has been oddly behaved with other dogs. He is fine with dogs we know and see regular, including collies, labradors and a huge Afgan hound and he still runs about like an idiot with smaller dogs.

The problem arises when we meet a strange dog who is the same size or bigger than him. Since the Alsation incidents, he is agressive with these dogs, but not all the time. Sometimes it's just barking at them, other times he is showing his teeth and snacking for no reason. Sometimes it's hit and miss - we saw a brown mongrel about the size of a lab yesterday and they sniffed each other, but then we saw them again a bit later (was on a circular path!) and he growled when she came over.

It's difficult walking him on the lead as he's a collie and he needs to off to run around and he loves to play chase with Jack and any doggy friends we see. However I'm constantly looking around for other dogs and if I see any that might be a threat, I'm calling him back and putting him on his lead as I don't trust him. He does come straight back the minute I call him, even if he's in mid-run.

Just wondering what the best way to deal with the agressive behaviour is? At the moment, I'm praising him when we pass a dog on the lead and he shows no reaction, and saying no firmly if he barks or shows his teeth.

Is there anything else I can be doing, or should I seek help from a behaviourist?

sarabe

Your dog's behaviour is perfectly normal given the circumstances.

I would allow him to tell other dogs that he does not want their attention.

His behaviour isn't aggressive. He is doing his utmost to try and avoid using aggression. He is simply communicating his feelings of fear and apprehension to other dogs and doing a good job by the sound of it.

Don't tell him off for doing it. If you do then he may stop giving warnings and then the other dog won't know not to approach and when he does.. well who knows what will happen, especially if you have put him back on lead and taken away the option to just move away.

He could also think that you told him off for letting the dog get too close so he'll try harder next time.

By the same token he doesn't need praising for not doing anything. Otherwise he's going to start wondering why he has been told he is a good boy when he didn't actually do anything. If I told you not to think about a red balloon, what would be the first thing that came into your mind?

I would be trying to keep things as normal as possible but maybe increase your interaction with Bob by playing ball or tug for short sessions and dismiss him inbetween. Then if you see a dog that you think he may react to just get out the toy and go in a different direction

Becles

Thanks for that.

I've got one of those ball launcher sticks that he absolutely loves playing with. That would be good for moving him into another direction.

It's other people's responses that made me a bit wary of letting him get on with things. He was growling and barking at a white bull terrier and the lady was ranting at me that he should be muzzled

EmptyPockets

I would have thought that what you have been doing was correct... but I know very little compared to a lot of people on this forum, and I am still learning a lot myself when it comes to dog behaviour and training. I don't know if you might find this video helpful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY7JrteQBOQ

It is worth watching it to the end as there are some helpful pointers for when a dog is showing aggressive behaviour towards others while out on walks... something we're having to try and correct with our own rescue Border Collie.

You may also want to try the 'positive interupter' while out walking, as demonstrated in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvPaqMZyo8&feature=channel

sarabe

Just say to people "sorry, he's not very tolerant of rude dogs" and smile and walk away, calling him with you. If the other dog persists that is their problem not yours.

walwin

Can nothing be done about the idiots with the Alsations?

It's obviously a regular thing with them and really not fair to other dogs and their people :mad:

hethmar

Yes, I think you need to complain about these idiots allowing big dogs to run willy nilly. Apart from terrifying other dogs, they could easily crash into kids or elderly people and do real damage.

Ralph warns off bigger/over friendly dogs because he is disabled and nervous of being vulnerable.

Becles

I wasn't sure who to complain to about the Alsations as I don't know where they live. If I can find out, I will though as I don't think they should be off the leads if they can't be controlled.

Our village is a bit strange with a huge open space of grass and woods in the middle and then the streets round the edges. People come and go at various points around the field depending on where they live.

Thanks for all the help - much appreciated xx

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Devils' Avocate here (sorry) - you do appreciate that you want your dogs off the lead to play and do doggy things, which is exactly what the men with the GSDs are wanting with theirs, don't you?

I think that they need to gain confidence in dealing with bigger dogs, something which will be hard for them if you are stressed, panicky and making a fuss of them. It is useful to consider that collies can look anxious or stressy even when perfectly happy - it's sometimes just their facial features that we project our own emotions onto.

I am sure you will be able to turn things around if you remain chilled out and confident around them, though - just wanted to point out that the GSD owners aren't deliberately trying to frighten you or your dogs. (And mouthing is pretty normal behaviour for dogs playing)

Becles

I appreciate the men want their alsations to run off the lead. However anyone who lets their dog off the lead should be able to control it and get it to come back when called, and should respect that other people might not want their dogs chased or jumped on.

dragonmonkey

Hi,

I have two 2 year old Border Collie Brothers and one has fear aggression.

If its any help, through reassurance and confidence building he is getting better :j

Tell him everything is Ok, talk to him, divert his attention etc etc

Every Border Collie Loves to be talked too :) show him you have his back as leader off the pack and tell them other dogs to back off.