Suffolk council plans to outsource virtually all services

Really2

Generali wrote: »

Why not provide education privately with the state transferring funds from rich to poor to allow the poor to be able to pay the fees?

I think use the best example, opt out (which now seems to be the same as academy status) let schools get managed like businesses, bring in funds that can be used on top class free to all education.

One of the top schools in the country is open to all, is free and in a generally poor area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Telford_School

bendix

carolt wrote: »

What, you think profit for private companies, where it's the taxpayers funding it, is good?

Of course profit is bad if it comes from the pockets of taxpayers, for services they previously got from the state for lower cost.

Your argument lost all impetus on the last three words.

If the aim of the austerity drive is to reduce costs to the public, i don't think many outsourcing contracts for the private supply of services previously done inhouse signed by Suffolk Council are likely to be more expensive, do you?

blueboy43

Degenerate wrote: »

Yep, and they're so efficient they really get the cost per head down to an affordable level. I don't know why we don't just have tax funded grants to send all kids to independent schools.

If there was the capacity, I struggle to think of a better idea.

Who wouldn't want that level of education for their child.

Andy_L

bendix wrote: »

If the private company provides a bad service, they lose the contract. A contract is not in perpetuity. A smart buyer will build KPIs into the outsourcing arrangements and those KPIs can be linked to simple metrics like customer satisfaction, service levels etc.

If they don't achieve them - and they are set by the council - there can be a range of financial penalties including losing the contract.

except that they build the risk of not meeting those KPIs into the quote, don't bother quoting or, as happended with a school "up North" (one of the big building firms IIRC) just walk away from the contract & pay the penalties

Degenerate

blueboy43 wrote: »

If there was the capacity, I struggle to think of a better idea.

Who wouldn't want that level of education for their child.

I'm not sure whether you deliberately ignored, or just blindly read past my point about cost per head. When the discussion is about cost-saving measures, you can't hold private institutions that cost many times what state provision does as examples of success.

blueboy43

Degenerate wrote: »

I'm not sure whether you deliberately ignored, or just blindly read past my point about cost per head. When the discussion is about cost-saving measures, you can't hold private institutions that cost many times what state provision does as examples of success.

Plenty of day public schools out there whose fees are in the region of £2-3k more than what the state pays to educate a secondary school pupil.
Lets say £10-£12 billion to send all post 11 years olds to public school.

I can think of worse things to spend our money on.

It's not all Eton and Brideshead revisted.

Degenerate

bendix wrote: »

Your argument lost all impetus on the last three words.

If the aim of the austerity drive is to reduce costs to the public, i don't think many outsourcing contracts for the private supply of services previously done inhouse signed by Suffolk Council are likely to be more expensive, do you?

No, they'll be cheaper, but offer a lower level of service. When the council demand the service standard be raised, the contractor will say they are meeting the spec they quoted to, and demand extra for raising the standard.

bendix wrote: »

If the private company provides a bad service, they lose the contract. A contract is not in perpetuity. A smart buyer will build KPIs into the outsourcing arrangements and those KPIs can be linked to simple metrics like customer satisfaction, service levels etc.

If they don't achieve them - and they are set by the council - there can be a range of financial penalties including losing the contract.

This would be fine if it was a straightforward matter to write specifications and KPIs that actually capture real-world requirements and performance faithfully. It isn't. The public sector is especially bad at it, because they try to palm things off onto contractors wholesale, rather than breaking them down into small, easily measurable lumps and keeping project management in house.

Degenerate

blueboy43 wrote: »

Plenty of day public schools out there whose fees are in the region of £2-3k more than what the state pays to educate a secondary school pupil.
Lets say £10-£12 billion to send all post 11 years olds to public school.

And that's going to reduce the deficit?

michaels

Well given that the average privately educated individual probably earns a lot more and pays a lot more taxes over their working life time and given that the general consensus is that the only way we can maintain employment from being outsourced to developing countries is my concentrating on the highest skilled jobs it sounds like it might actually be a winning investment...

...can I add that I went to a local secondary and would never send my kids to a private school because I don't want them to be brainwashed in to thinking they are superior to those who are state educated.

Degenerate wrote: »

And that's going to reduce the deficit?

dopester

michaels wrote: »

...can I add that I went to a local secondary and would never send my kids to a private school because I don't want them to be brainwashed in to thinking they are superior to those who are state educated.

No offence, but I think you're the one who has been brainwashed with that narrow attitude, and that sweeping assumption. I don't think myself superior to people who were state educated whatsoever, and I suspect it's not a view held by the majority of privately educated current/former students.

blueboy43 wrote: »

If there was the capacity, I struggle to think of a better idea.

Who wouldn't want that level of education for their child.

The Conservatives want more independent private schools to open don't they?

I loved my primary-junior school. Big old Victorian House, an independent school with about 125 pupils. (Last reported as 63 boys and 62 girls). There should be more schools like that, with parents chipping in £2 or £3 per day towards the fees for each of their children (excluding weekends/holidays) - and a rotating teacher staff for certain subjects (sciences) going between such independent schools in the area.

Conservatives plan school powers shift from councils
7 February 2010

The party has pledged to allow parents and non-profit making organisations to set up new, independent schools wherever they want.

The Conservatives' planning system would remove potential obstacles to the development of new schools by curtailing the power of local authorities in this area, according to the document.

The leaked planning policy says "for the [education] policy to be successful it is essential that unnecessary bureaucracy is not permitted to stifle the creation of new community schools".

Under the policy, as well as planning decisions on new schools being taken by the secretary of state for children, schools and families, anyone would be able to turn an existing building into a school without the need for planning permission.

And when an existing school closed, that land would not be allowed to be used for any other purpose without the agreement of the schools secretary.