is having a generous welfare policy and high immigration compatible?

iinvestor

In the UK we have a relatively generous welfare policy, which include housing benefits, tax credits, child tax credit, job seekers allowance, council homes, amongst others.

At the same time we have a fairly laid back immigration policy which allows EU members who have paid NI in the UK for one year, asylum seekers, no EU nationals who have legally come here to work, to enjoy our generous benefit system.



Is such a policy sustainable in the long run?

Surely a better system would be, to scrap all benefits, Except pensions and other benefits for pensioners, genuine disability benefits, carers allowance.


Allow everyone who earns less than 15k to pay zero tax. And every body else pays the same amount of tax as now.

No benefit fraud, no bureaucracy. Allowing the low paid to earn a decent living. Rewarding people for going to work and being productive. Treating people like adults.

And we wouldn't attract immigrants who simply come to the UK to milk our benefit system.

would such a system work?

olly300

Yawn.

Get your facts right before you post another benefit thread.

Butterfly_Brain

The Best policy for All immigration is that if you are not born here you are not allowed any form of benefit or free health care unless you have lived here and paid taxes for 5 years

ninky_2

welfare benefits are already limited to immigrants.

obviously illegal immigrants don't / can't get benefits (unless they somehow commit fraud) as they outside the system.

those who have come here to work don't get benefits either until they have paid into the system for a certain amount of time.

those on spouse visas have to be supported by their partners and have no recourse to public funds (benefits).

i don't think people on student visas can get benefits.

asylum is a separate issue. however i wonder if you'd count being held in a detention centre as a 'benefit'?

Hauptmann

Our benefit system is not particularly generous when compared with many other Western European countries.
I now employ a considerable number of immigrants (albeit mainly from Eastern Europe, rather than Asia) and IME the main reasons that most head for the UK are:

1. Good employment opportunities and a warm welcome from employers.
2. English language (most popular second language).
3. Exisiting and supportive communities, especially for religion etc.

Over the past 10 years I've gone from employing no non-UK nationals to about 60% immigrant labour.

Many UK companies, especially in food supply, hospitality, property etc., would struggle to maintain profitability without the use of immigrant labour. Most businessmen that I know feel that the UK needs a more open and liberal immigration policy - not xenophobic restrictions. I believe that this is the feeling of most in the coalition government - what is holding them back is fear of a public backlash.

robin_banks

No recourse to public funds for 4 years rings a bell.

ruggedtoast

Every other EU country is having this conversation at the moment, the UK is hardly unique.

Unfortunately the EU is one of the few shining lights of affluence in a world comprised of 6 billion people who mostly are very poor by comparison. Its not surprising poorer people are trying to come here.

neverdespairgirl

ninky wrote: »

those on spouse visas have to be supported by their partners and have no recourse to public funds (benefits).

Some benefits aren't public funds.

The NHS isn't public funds, either.

A spouse can access all benefits after 2 years on a spouse visa, providing (s)he gets indefinite leave to remain.

ninky_2

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

Some benefits aren't public funds.

The NHS isn't public funds, either.

A spouse can access all benefits after 2 years on a spouse visa, providing (s)he gets indefinite leave to remain.

agreed you can acces the nhs but which other benefits?

i'd say that if you meet the criteria for indefinite leave to remain (employment is one of them from what i remember) you should of course have access to benefits the same as everyone else. after all, you've made a commitment to your new country of residence.

The_White_Horse

ninky wrote: »

asylum is a separate issue. however i wonder if you'd count being held in a detention centre as a 'benefit'?

it is if you are a genuine asylum seeker. unless you would prefer death to the dentention centre?

99% of asylum seekers are bogus in my opinion.

marklv

iinvestor wrote: »

In the UK we have a relatively generous welfare policy, which include housing benefits, tax credits, child tax credit, job seekers allowance, council homes, amongst others.

At the same time we have a fairly laid back immigration policy which allows EU members who have paid NI in the UK for one year, asylum seekers, no EU nationals who have legally come here to work, to enjoy our generous benefit system.



Is such a policy sustainable in the long run?

Surely a better system would be, to scrap all benefits, Except pensions and other benefits for pensioners, genuine disability benefits, carers allowance.


Allow everyone who earns less than 15k to pay zero tax. And every body else pays the same amount of tax as now.

No benefit fraud, no bureaucracy. Allowing the low paid to earn a decent living. Rewarding people for going to work and being productive. Treating people like adults.

And we wouldn't attract immigrants who simply come to the UK to milk our benefit system.

would such a system work?

You can't scrap all benefits you stupid pillock. Let's instead scrap all immigration - and start repatriation.