Scared of my rescue dog

magickid

Thanks for all your advice, and thanks to Cinderalla for the PM - I will definitely have a look at those links.

Just to clear a few things up, we have spoken to the rescue - it was the first thing we did. Their suggestion was that she just needs to spend more time with me, which I am trying to do. They said when she arrived the previous owners had said she was a lovely friendly girl, but they experienced what I am experiencing - teeth bared, snarling, growling etc. They said in a few weeks she was better with everyone. So that is what is what I a focusing on, and I am hoping eventually she will settle with me as she has done with my OH.

We have also banned her from the bedroom - she sleeps on the landing behind a baby gate so she can still see us but I can sleep without fear! She has been fine with this, no growling, no snapping or teeth shown which is much better.

And I realise a month is not a long time, and it looks like we won't be sending her back. I think its much more likely I'll be rehomed before her!

Juneno

Good for you :T I hope it all works out well. Well done for giving a dog with problems a chance and an obviously good home.

Lirin

Our cat was a rescue cat, I think. It had been mistreated, and didn't take at all kindly to me moving in- damn thing used to wait on the roof of the house, and pounce on me when I tried to come in the door, then settle back with a smug expression in a suitably far corner. With my partner, she was all peaches and cream, a perfect little kitty.

As she got older, she realised I was the soft touch and would let her in if it was raining- she switched favourtism rights then to me, and would curl up contentedly on my lap in the living room, ignoring my partner completely. She still kept a devious stroke though- she'd hide under the cushions and wait for an unsuspecting butt to sit on her.

She did calm with us, but it took quite some time, and a lot of effort on my part.

Proc

My mother had a rescue collie about 8 years ago. A beautiful thing called Jack (it wasn't from a centre, just some people who she knew had it and didn't look after it properly and wanted to give it up). When we first took him in he was obviously very nervous of people and if you approached him from behind would turn his head and snarl. He was also terribly scared of a lead (presumably due to being tied up for long periods of time).

It took months and months but eventually he became a loving, quite placid and calm doggie. I dealt with his snarling in a few ways. I'm sure that some people will slate me and tell me how I did it all wrong, blah blah, but it worked, so I don't really care.

Snarling with food: If you gave him food then went near him he would snarl. I would prepare his food on the work surface, without him in the room. Then I'd sit down next to him and start stroking him. He wasn't aware the food was prepared. Then I'd keep my hand on him, keep stroking him around the head and shoulders, then with the other hand put the food on the floor. He became used to my presence when the food was introduced so didn't see me as a threat to his meal. A few times I'd move in the wrong way he would snarl, I'd bolt up to my feet, loudly shout "right OUT" then lead him into his utility room by the collar where he would stay for 15 minutes or so completely ignored.

I then progressed this to introducing him to food, walking away, then re-entering his area. Again, if he snarled, a loud "right OUT" and lead him outside for 15 minutes.

After a couple of months it got to a stage where we could literally take his food off him, or push him around a little whilst he's eating, and he'd look a little bit confused but wouldn't bear his teeth.

Snarling when approached from behind: Exactly the same as above. I would normally distract him with a toy, then actually put myself in a situation where I'm making him snarl at me by quite abruptly approaching from behind. Every time he snarled it was straight outside. It took a lot of time and patience, and he spent a lot of time outside, but within a few weeks he actually changed a lot. By the end I could run up to him, grab fur around his hind legs and pull him a bit and he wouldn't snap.

Scared of lead: This was simple. Put the lead on him anyway, then drag him down the road. I'm sure someone will tell me that's cruel, but every time I took him on a walk, I made sure it was somewhere he'd love; in this case it was some straw fields about 100 yards down the road. Within 3 days he became okay (if a little unsure) on the lead. Within a month he was actually absolutely perfect. He would never pull always walking perfectly to heel.

Quite often I would purposefully put Jack in situations where I'm very abrupt, maybe a bit dominating or rough with him, to try and get him to snap. Then I could "punish" him accordingly. It's fine him snapping at me (and trust me I got bitten a fair few times over a period of 6 months but usually pulled my sleeves over my hands) but if he ever snapped at a visitor it's a different story. I think it's good to try and encourage the unwanted behaviours in a controlled environment so that you can deal with it. If you avoid them, they'll only rear their head at the most inconvenient of times.

I think with regards to your situation with the snarling dog, just a consistent "right OUT" and then 15 minutes of exclusion. It shows who the boss is, and also that the behaviour isn't acceptable. Jack probably snarled for various reasons, but the fact is it's a product of how he was treated in his early years and he soon learned that he didn't need these defensive barriers with us. I can't stress enough how you need to be consistent with your approach. Maybe you should spend a bit of time sat down with him every day, in a quiet room, with a few toys and treats. Try and find out what it is that makes him flip. Is it eye contact? Is it the presence of another dog? Is it maybe moving your hands about and he feels threatened? Either way, force these situations on him often, then deal with the outcome. The dog will learn to cope with the situations without growling and start to understand that there is nothing to fear.

I'm sure I'm going to get shot down in flames for my methods. I don't care. They worked. Within 12 months we had a super-happy, very loyal, but more important fairly stable border collie. Sure, he wasn't perfect (he didn't like people on push bikes for example, but this was a scenario that's hard to replicate in the home and therefore treat) but although we were always very cautious when kids were around, he was very gentle around them.

TLDR: Be the boss. Don't accept !!!!. Force uncomfortable situations on the dog then deal with it.

In case you're wandering what Jack is up to now, he was put to sleep aged 9 (we had him since he was about 4-5) as he became riddled with cancer. He's now at rainbow bridge, sat patiently waiting for my Mother.

Lirin

No, I'll agree proc- I'm sure plenty will shoot you down.

I've mentioned I'm from an environment where we raised gundogs- quite often a stick was used, or harsh words. With the stick they were never beaten- I don't agree with that at all. It was a swish lightly on the rear end, which doesn't hurt but made them indignant.
You can't raise a gundog on purely rewarding tactics. Pets are completely different to bring up from gundogs however. Mine were not harshly treated- quite often they catch fast and train well to us, and after being harsh once or twice, they learnt. I've had several very loyal dogs.

You do need to let them see you're dominant though, whether pet or working.

Proc

Lirin wrote: »

. With the stick they were never beaten- I don't agree with that at all. It was a swish lightly on the rear end, which doesn't hurt but made them indignant.

Yep I agree. I currently have a Springer Spaniel. A quick poke on the back-side used to work wonders for bringing him back to heel if he was too far on.

Lirin

With a rescue dog, I'd be careful, but as Proc has said, deliberately place him in uncomfortable situations. Be very wary initially though- you are asking for a few snaps. You can't avoid a situation- to name an example Proc gave- coming up from behind, and the dog snapping at you. If you avoid coming up behind, you're putting yourself out of the situation, but not helping. There's a risk the dog will snap out at someone and maybe do harm then. You do need to deal with it, and integrate the dog slowly as people-friendly as you possibly can.

Proc

Lirin wrote: »

With a rescue dog, I'd be careful,

Yes. I probably didn't mention this enough.

Common sense. Keep your head out of striking range at all times. I actually went through a stage of wearing leather gloves at first. However after a couple of weeks when Jack saw me wearing these, he actually used to go and sit straight in the utility room!

foreign_correspondent

The technique you describe is known as flooding - it may work, or it may reinforce her fears to the point where she cannot operate, and in the process and she may bite and really injure someone - which is not a pattern I would ever want to set up with a dog. Its a big gamble to take, and could make things far worse.

Personally, I would focus on spending time with her, in training and gaining her trust, whilst ensuring your own safety. She is acting through fear, and making her more fearful may lead to a situation which is not recoverable. Making her less sensitive to the things that worry her is a priority, but there are more ways than one to achieve this.

If someone had a phobia, of spiders or rats, forcing them into a room full of them may make them realise that they cannot actually harm them, or it may be so traumatic that they would develop associated fears of other things which remind them of it... for example, if the person who forced them in was wearing a suit, they may develop a subconscious association between terror, and people in suits... corridors which look similar to the one leading to the room may evoke a fearful reaction...

Desensitisation which is achieved by gradually exposing them to the feared object (such as looking at a picture of a spider, then a spider in a case, then standing near to the case, etc) tends to be effective, and does not traumatise the person.

If this immersion technique worked, then I wonder why so many collies in rescue kennels have a tendency to become over-reactive, and neurotic, and get worse and worse as time goes on till they are bouncing off the walls and engaging in sterotypic, stress related behaviours...? They often find the noise and environment inherently stressful, and surely if it was a case of immerse them in it and they will get used to it, they would get better and better the longer they were there, less worried, not more...

ETA - my dog had a fear of sticks... if I lifted a rake up in the greenhouse, she would flatten herself to the ground - presumably she had been beaten at some point. I overcame this by clicker training her to 'touch' the end of a stick, for a reward - she learnt to do this with a small stick at first (wooden spoon handle!) and it took minutes for her to learn the command - we then moved onto bigger sticks and broom handles etc... she is now not worried by them, as she associates them with a game, and a reward, not a beating. Presumably, using flooding techniques, I should have seen how much stick waving it took her to 'flip' then taken it from there? Why would I want to do that to my dog, or to myself??

EmptyPockets

FC, why is it I always await your fantastic advice on threads like this one? Because I always learn something myself, and you make so much sense :T:T:T:T:T:T