Going Crazy with our Buyer!!!

not_loaded

I do sympathise Poppit.

At the bottom of our small chain it turned out we had a wobbling moron couple (FTBers) who had, let’s say, ‘painted a picture’ of their situation. Unfortunately all that they proclaimed was taken as gospel by the local EA. On looking at the chain I mentioned to him that it looked like our only risk was the FTBers, and he said ‘absolutely not, they know they’re getting a good house at a great price – they’re rock solid.’.

Weeks later it all ended in tears. What made it worse was that the EA had been shoring up the FTBers financially in order to get the exchange done. He told us about that at the last minute (to show what a wonderful chap he was presumably) but all it did was worry me. EAs don’t normally get financially involved in paying customers’ deposits after all!

So that effectively appeared to be window-shopping hugely optimistic FTBers, who took it right to exchange and blew it.

Well guess what, it’s all just happened again with another idiot! I don’t think it’s done maliciously, I think they just don’t take their original commitment (offering and proceeding) seriously enough.

I’ve seen a lot of people on here saying ‘wait till they commit by spending on the survey etc, because THAT’S when you know they’re serious.’. Not in our experience and twice now!

As you say, the effects on the other people involved are horrendous, and I find it very hard to believe people are so cruel as to take matters right to the very moment of exchange. They surely must have doubts along the way. I’m amazed that the significant financial losses don’t seem to bother them. I wish some of the money came our way in compensation for our losses.

satchmeister

not_loaded wrote: »

I do sympathise Poppit.

At the bottom of our small chain it turned out we had a wobbling moron couple (FTBers) who had, let’s say, ‘painted a picture’ of their situation. Unfortunately all that they proclaimed was taken as gospel by the local EA. On looking at the chain I mentioned to him that it looked like our only risk was the FTBers, and he said ‘absolutely not, they know they’re getting a good house at a great price – they’re rock solid.’.

Weeks later it all ended in tears. What made it worse was that the EA had been shoring up the FTBers financially in order to get the exchange done. He told us about that at the last minute (to show what a wonderful chap he was presumably) but all it did was worry me. EAs don’t normally get financially involved in paying customers’ deposits after all!

So that effectively appeared to be window-shopping hugely optimistic FTBers, who took it right to exchange and blew it.

Well guess what, it’s all just happened again with another idiot! I don’t think it’s done maliciously, I think they just don’t take their original commitment (offering and proceeding) seriously enough.

I’ve seen a lot of people on here saying ‘wait till they commit by spending on the survey etc, because THAT’S when you know they’re serious.’. Not in our experience and twice now!

As you say, the effects on the other people involved are horrendous, and I find it very hard to believe people are so cruel as to take matters right to the very moment of exchange. They surely must have doubts along the way. I’m amazed that the significant financial losses don’t seem to bother them. I wish some of the money came our way in compensation for our losses.

Successive governments have had the chance to change the system and none have. The Scottish system seems better where there is a more serious commitment when an offer is made. In England until you exchange then any money spent is speculative as there is no deal until exchange. Don't blame the people (OK they are playing the system in some cases) it is the system that needs to be changed, and it is not really that difficult to change it is it?

not_loaded

satchmeister wrote: »

Successive governments have had the chance to change the system and none have. The Scottish system seems better where there is a more serious commitment when an offer is made. In England until you exchange then any money spent is speculative as there is no deal until exchange. Don't blame the people (OK they are playing the system in some cases) it is the system that needs to be changed, and it is not really that difficult to change it is it?

No, sorry, but I do blame the people!

So many people nowadays take absolutely no responsibility for their actions.

By all means waiver and view three times then walk away. By all means come along and tell stories about finances etc, to get a deal. By all means haggle when you see the survey, but once you’ve got it all agreed, have the cojones to stick by what you’ve agreed.

Needlessly leading people down an eight to twelve week path with sheer hell at the end is an appalling way to behave. :mad:

carolt

Sounds very stressful - agreed we have a stupid system.

That said, there are also plenty of sellers like this. We had 1 who kept raising the price by a few thousand, every time we agreed to a price. Eventually turned out she was embroiled in a messy devorce and ownership of the property was under dispute, so she had no legal right to sell anyway! The EA phoned us asking us to lie and say the sale had all been agreed, as part of the divorce proceedings - my FIL (who is a solicitor) advised us not to do this as we would then be party to fraud in said messy divorce!

At that point we pulled out...

Took about another 2 years before she sold...

So swings and roundabouts, nightmare buyers out there but also sellers.

mrstinchcombe

This does actually hit all the points to prove of Fraud by False Representation which is the most common offence from the Fraud Act 2006.

(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b)intends, by making the representation—

(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2)A representation is false if—

(a)it is untrue or misleading, and

(b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3)“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a)the person making the representation, or

(b)any other person.

(4)A representation may be express or implied.

(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

A person is in breach of this section if he dishonestly makes a false representation (ie makes an offer on a property which he has no intention of keeping) intends, by making the representation to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss (both financial and less tangible losses). A representation is false if it is untrue or misleading (he doesnt intend to buy the property), and the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading. (which he does).

Although it fits Fraud it is highly unlikely this would be taken forward as fraud is a crime of specific intend and requires the appropriate mens rea to prove.

satchmeister

not_loaded wrote: »

No, sorry, but I do blame the people!

So many people nowadays take absolutely no responsibility for their actions.

By all means waiver and view three times then walk away. By all means come along and tell stories about finances etc, to get a deal. By all means haggle when you see the survey, but once you’ve got it all agreed, have the cojones to stick by what you’ve agreed.

Needlessly leading people down an eight to twelve week path with sheer hell at the end is an appalling way to behave. :mad:

I don't disagree with you as I said some people will play the system and the sysyem allows then to do it. Change the system to stop people abusing it. And yes I have had the last minute change just prior to exchange when I was selling once.

nomoneytoday

Since surveys costs £hundreds, and solicitor bills aren't cheap, why would people want to be "serial guzunderers"?

pararct

Gazumping and Gazundering only go on because people allow it to.

If everyone responded with a stern no then it would soon die out.

As for time wasters whenever I have bought a house I have paid a deposit of £100 into the estate agents in good faith. It has been some years but does this practice still continue?

Ok they may still spend £££hundreds on the legals and survey but then how can they be time wasters? There must have been some commitment?

gimboid_2

Your buyers name wasn't Mr Bartarya was it? We had an absolute nightmare with this man when we offered on our house last year. As with your buyer he kept going AWOL for weeks on end and not answering or returning calls and when it came close to exchange his deposit money never appeared!!! He kept moving the goalposts and then when exchange came round he did his disappearing act again. Each time when crunch time came he went AWOL and in the end we told him to stuff it!!!

So sorry that you have gone through something similar. Our buyer wasted months and months of our lives and put everyone in the chain through hell not to mention the money that we all wasted.

betmunch

Can I just ask:

If you believe the funds were never in place, why didnt your EA pick this up?

Its one thing to gazunder, but a whole other thing to proceed with a sale when the miney is not even available. The EA has a duty to the Vendor to make sure the Buyer is in a position to proceed. The Corporate EA's will require a buyer to prove they have mortgage plus deposit to cover the total value of the offer, if they dont prove this they will recomend to the Vendor that they continue to market the property.

What did you EA do with regards to checking the financial situation of your buyer?