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Landlord right of entry?
madmonster
Posts: 406 Forumite
Apologies in advance this is going to be a long one.
My (sort of) Father in law has been renting a "hovel" (social workers words) for the last three years. He has a terminal brain tumour and is now on borrowed time. Because the brain tumour makes him forgetful he pays his rent six monthly but is now on a rolling contract having reached the end of his AST. His next rent would be due on 20th December 2010, when he could choose to pay one month or however much he chose. It is his choice to pay 6 monthly and the landlord has always been happy to accept this, afterall he gets the interest. He is a private landlord with 3 other properties and uses a letting agent soley to find the tenants but then once lease signed he takes over full responsibility. The properties are designed around a courtyard with the landlord living on site.
On 31st August FIL took a really bad turn for the worse and the social worker, hospital consultant and mcmillan nurses together with the family decided that he needed emergency placement in a nursing home and that he couldn't cope home alone anymore. As my mother in law (his girlfriend) was already in a nursing home having had a stroke in January 2010, we arranged to move them in to adjoining rooms. The intention being that they would see out their days together rather than thirty miles apart. After 27 years of dating it seemed the last decent thing we could do.
On 2nd September 2010, the hospital released FIL into the nursing home.
On 3rd September, I drove FIL back to his home with a friend, so we had two cars and we picked up emergency belongings. We stopped and spoke to the landlord and explained the situation. I specifically asked if he needed anything in writing of us and he said no. I asked whether he wanted us to clean out as a matter of urgency as I wasn't sure when the month end for rent purposes was, but offered to have everything cleared by the end of this month. A month's notice would have taken us til 3rd October 2010. He said in front of friend and FIL that we could take our time, and not to worry knowing how ill FIL was. I confirmed to him verbally we'd have everything done by the end of the month. He offered (we did not ask for or expect) that if we were gone by end of month that he would contact letting agency to return rent and make cheque payable to nursing home for FILs fees there.
We left and took FIL home. I returned again that evening and started clearing. I returned the next day and cleared out the major pieces of furniture to a local furniture charity organisation who help out disadvantaged families. Like all charities, they didn't want everything so bits and pieces still remained - a desk, tv stand and stereo stand and a small folding table. Everything that had been stored in the furniture I put in white bags or boxes ready to continue sorting and putting into my car as and when. Three days later, I returned again with a friend - luckily for us this time it was a magistrate - and we cleared out the kitchen, washed down all the surfaces, scrubbed the fridge, cooker etc and emptied every cupboard.
The next day MIL took a really bad turn for the worse and we were told she had hours to live. Obviously at this point none of us left the nursing home until her death on Friday 10th September. That day FIL phoned the landlord told him of her death as he thought of him as a friend to both of them.
Funeral arrangements took precedence and we didn't get back to the hovel until yesterday afternoon 16th September. This is exactly a fortnight since telling the landlord we were moving FIL. Imagine our shock and horror to find all of FILs belongings gone. The door wide open and major painting and decorating and refurbishment going on. The painters had used his desk as a paint table to store white spirit and paint trays on in the middle of the room, FILs towels were being used as drip protectors on the carpets and everything else except a few box files of photographs was gone.
I knocked on the landlords door, holding the keys in my hand and just said "ummm where is all of FILs stuff? He's breaking down on there and is really distraught". The LL snatched the keys out of my hand and said, "you lot had done a runner, I've not heard from anyone for over three weeks and you left me with a whole heap of rubbish to clear up". He then slammed the door. I returned to the courtyard to a visibly upset FIL, being supported from collapsing by my friend. The LL appeared a few minutes later, threw up the door of his garage, pointed to a few boxes and said "there's his stuff, everything else i've thrown away", he then muttered "it's all my fault, I suppose you're going to blame me!" then he went to his car jumped into it and sped away. It was a real wheels spinning gravel crunching departure.
What was left in the garage was the rubbish, old slippers, some ornaments, some clothes and coat hangers and a bin from the kitchen. No where to be seen was the Dyson, Dehumidifier (a necessary evil in the hovel) or countless antiques and expensive articles. FILs alcohol stash was gone as was all his cleaning stuff which we left behind in copious amounts - all new unopened bottles - ready for the clean up to follow. I'd guess at a rough estimate that some 3k of stuff was missing.
We called the police! They came pondering whether it was civil or criminal but because they'd heard of this guy before they thought they would follow it up but not really sure if they could help. They finally caught up with him at 10pm and he announced that we had intimaded him and he'd been so scared of us that all he could think of to get rid of us was to say he'd thrown the stuff away hoping we'd go away. But if FIL had driven himself over alone he would have told him that it was in his house for safe keeping. - intimidating i'm 5ft nothing, my mate is 5ft 2", we're both in our forties and he had two builders on the site watching his back. Safe keeping meant the Dyson was plugged into the wall socket, the ornaments were in his display cabinet etc etc. He said FIL could have it all back next Thursday (don't know?) and that he would need police protection from us at the hand over. Please remember FIL has brain tumour is partially blind and hasn't been able to drive for 3 years and landlord knows this!! He has also said that we can shove our remaining rent as we left the place in such a state and that he's thrown away much of FILs stuff and that he only has a fraction of it for safekeeping.
So THANK YOU if you've managed to read to the end of this saga... Questions: What do we do?
Police have said all they can do is supervise hand over of goods and anything missing is gone and it's a civil case as he didn't mean to permanently deprive FIL of the goods. Policeman finished by telling us how sorry he was and that the landlord was a "lying scumbag" and how glad we should be that we had a magistate as a witness to contents otherwise we wouldn't have a hope in civil proceedings.
Need to act quickly, this has devastated FIL and he's not managed to get out of bed today at all, DRs are keeping him sedated and we just hope he hangs on until the funeral of MIL next monday. I am his Executor and POA.
My (sort of) Father in law has been renting a "hovel" (social workers words) for the last three years. He has a terminal brain tumour and is now on borrowed time. Because the brain tumour makes him forgetful he pays his rent six monthly but is now on a rolling contract having reached the end of his AST. His next rent would be due on 20th December 2010, when he could choose to pay one month or however much he chose. It is his choice to pay 6 monthly and the landlord has always been happy to accept this, afterall he gets the interest. He is a private landlord with 3 other properties and uses a letting agent soley to find the tenants but then once lease signed he takes over full responsibility. The properties are designed around a courtyard with the landlord living on site.
On 31st August FIL took a really bad turn for the worse and the social worker, hospital consultant and mcmillan nurses together with the family decided that he needed emergency placement in a nursing home and that he couldn't cope home alone anymore. As my mother in law (his girlfriend) was already in a nursing home having had a stroke in January 2010, we arranged to move them in to adjoining rooms. The intention being that they would see out their days together rather than thirty miles apart. After 27 years of dating it seemed the last decent thing we could do.
On 2nd September 2010, the hospital released FIL into the nursing home.
On 3rd September, I drove FIL back to his home with a friend, so we had two cars and we picked up emergency belongings. We stopped and spoke to the landlord and explained the situation. I specifically asked if he needed anything in writing of us and he said no. I asked whether he wanted us to clean out as a matter of urgency as I wasn't sure when the month end for rent purposes was, but offered to have everything cleared by the end of this month. A month's notice would have taken us til 3rd October 2010. He said in front of friend and FIL that we could take our time, and not to worry knowing how ill FIL was. I confirmed to him verbally we'd have everything done by the end of the month. He offered (we did not ask for or expect) that if we were gone by end of month that he would contact letting agency to return rent and make cheque payable to nursing home for FILs fees there.
We left and took FIL home. I returned again that evening and started clearing. I returned the next day and cleared out the major pieces of furniture to a local furniture charity organisation who help out disadvantaged families. Like all charities, they didn't want everything so bits and pieces still remained - a desk, tv stand and stereo stand and a small folding table. Everything that had been stored in the furniture I put in white bags or boxes ready to continue sorting and putting into my car as and when. Three days later, I returned again with a friend - luckily for us this time it was a magistrate - and we cleared out the kitchen, washed down all the surfaces, scrubbed the fridge, cooker etc and emptied every cupboard.
The next day MIL took a really bad turn for the worse and we were told she had hours to live. Obviously at this point none of us left the nursing home until her death on Friday 10th September. That day FIL phoned the landlord told him of her death as he thought of him as a friend to both of them.
Funeral arrangements took precedence and we didn't get back to the hovel until yesterday afternoon 16th September. This is exactly a fortnight since telling the landlord we were moving FIL. Imagine our shock and horror to find all of FILs belongings gone. The door wide open and major painting and decorating and refurbishment going on. The painters had used his desk as a paint table to store white spirit and paint trays on in the middle of the room, FILs towels were being used as drip protectors on the carpets and everything else except a few box files of photographs was gone.
I knocked on the landlords door, holding the keys in my hand and just said "ummm where is all of FILs stuff? He's breaking down on there and is really distraught". The LL snatched the keys out of my hand and said, "you lot had done a runner, I've not heard from anyone for over three weeks and you left me with a whole heap of rubbish to clear up". He then slammed the door. I returned to the courtyard to a visibly upset FIL, being supported from collapsing by my friend. The LL appeared a few minutes later, threw up the door of his garage, pointed to a few boxes and said "there's his stuff, everything else i've thrown away", he then muttered "it's all my fault, I suppose you're going to blame me!" then he went to his car jumped into it and sped away. It was a real wheels spinning gravel crunching departure.
What was left in the garage was the rubbish, old slippers, some ornaments, some clothes and coat hangers and a bin from the kitchen. No where to be seen was the Dyson, Dehumidifier (a necessary evil in the hovel) or countless antiques and expensive articles. FILs alcohol stash was gone as was all his cleaning stuff which we left behind in copious amounts - all new unopened bottles - ready for the clean up to follow. I'd guess at a rough estimate that some 3k of stuff was missing.
We called the police! They came pondering whether it was civil or criminal but because they'd heard of this guy before they thought they would follow it up but not really sure if they could help. They finally caught up with him at 10pm and he announced that we had intimaded him and he'd been so scared of us that all he could think of to get rid of us was to say he'd thrown the stuff away hoping we'd go away. But if FIL had driven himself over alone he would have told him that it was in his house for safe keeping. - intimidating i'm 5ft nothing, my mate is 5ft 2", we're both in our forties and he had two builders on the site watching his back. Safe keeping meant the Dyson was plugged into the wall socket, the ornaments were in his display cabinet etc etc. He said FIL could have it all back next Thursday (don't know?) and that he would need police protection from us at the hand over. Please remember FIL has brain tumour is partially blind and hasn't been able to drive for 3 years and landlord knows this!! He has also said that we can shove our remaining rent as we left the place in such a state and that he's thrown away much of FILs stuff and that he only has a fraction of it for safekeeping.
So THANK YOU if you've managed to read to the end of this saga... Questions: What do we do?
Police have said all they can do is supervise hand over of goods and anything missing is gone and it's a civil case as he didn't mean to permanently deprive FIL of the goods. Policeman finished by telling us how sorry he was and that the landlord was a "lying scumbag" and how glad we should be that we had a magistate as a witness to contents otherwise we wouldn't have a hope in civil proceedings.
Need to act quickly, this has devastated FIL and he's not managed to get out of bed today at all, DRs are keeping him sedated and we just hope he hangs on until the funeral of MIL next monday. I am his Executor and POA.
comps total: Jan 2010 £6000:j
A-Z (124)
[STRIKE]A B C D[/STRIKE] E [STRIKE]F G H I [/STRIKE]J [STRIKE]K L [/STRIKE]M N O [STRIKE]P[/STRIKE] Q R [STRIKE]S T[/STRIKE] U [STRIKE]V W X[/STRIKE] Y Z
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What a terrible scenario. My sympathies.
Since rent has been paid up to 19th Dec (?), the LL had no right to come in without permission, and certainly no right to remove belongings.
The key to this hangs on when the contract can be deemed to have ended. For this to happen, either correct notice needs to be served (one month by FIL ending on a rent day - 19th of month), or a mutual agreement is needed (preferable written to avoid doubt). Either way the property needs to have been vacated - which it has not been since FILs belonging were still present.
The best solution here is to reach an agreement with the LL (and get it in writing) that the contract will end on X date (by when ALL FIL's belongings should be removed), that all belongings missing will be returned, or compensated for, and that advance rent paid will be returned form X date.
If this can be achieved by negotiation it is to everyone's benefit.
If not you need to get written notice in (using the 1 month formula above), and sue for damages (to belongings) in Small Claims Court.0 -
yes rent has been paid up to 19th December 2010.
Doubt he's going to negotiate, he's told us that if anyone other than FIL comes onto his premises without a police escort he will charge us with trespass. He counts his premises as the entire courtyard so that means that only FIL can get to the property. Obviously, he is well aware that as FIL is so ill he can't get onto the premises without help. I would add that the pc did laugh when passing on this message from the landlord and said he'd like to see him try and call them to protect him from us.comps total: Jan 2010 £6000:j
A-Z (124)[STRIKE]A B C D[/STRIKE] E [STRIKE]F G H I [/STRIKE]J [STRIKE]K L [/STRIKE]M N O [STRIKE]P[/STRIKE] Q R [STRIKE]S T[/STRIKE] U [STRIKE]V W X[/STRIKE] Y Z0 -
The only way you are likely to get your stuff back or money for the stuff is by threatening in writing that you are going to take the landlord to court.
Getting solicitor to write the initial letter may be enough to get most of the stuff back. Particularly if it's added into the letter that a magistrate witnessed the events. Also make sure the letter states that you have POA to deal with your FIL stuff.
Unfortunately you have to pay for the solicitors letter and you need to do it quickly before the stuff is all got rid off.
You can do small claims stuff yourself but in this case frightening the LL into giving your FIL stuff back may be enough.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0 -
what a bar steward....... i agree with olly... i do hpe he gets his things back... have you both sat down and made a list of what is missing ?
if rent has been paid till the end of the year - then this is unlawful eviction which is a criminal offence.. i dont know why the police are !!!!!footing around .........0 -
What's best for your FIL? Will the stress of trying to sort it out be too much for him? Do what you can to help - and I agree if rent has been paid and no notice given it's really very bad of the LL to do what they've done.
It's a terrible situation for you and your family.
At the end of the day it's only stuff - be with him and help him get through this.0 -
agree with barstew & clutton, appalling!!! Sorry to read your story.
I'd suggest pursuing the illegal eviction route if you/he have the emotional energy... people like this little toe-rag of a LL need stopping for good! Shelter/CaB/Solicitor would be where to go for help..
Best wishes to you all..
Artful
PS I had these notes from some other source which might help point to the relevant law...
.“Protection from Eviction Act 1977”
Section 1-
- Unlawful eviction and harassment
- s.1(3A) (as was amended by the Housing Act 1988) which states:
"the landlord of a residential occupier or an agent of the landlord shall be guilty of an offence if he does acts likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household." - The individual carrying out any inspection will be personally criminally liable, and could face arrest by the police on the above charge. Likewise the agency as a corporate entity may face criminal investigation.
Also any attempt to enter the premises without your consent will treated as, as a matter of civil law:
a. trespass; and
b. a breach of the quiet enjoyment clause under the tenancy agreement.
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A LL must n ot just assume that a T has "abandoned" their tenancy and make off with the Ts possessions.
Did he make any attempt to contact you after your conversation as you headed off to the hospital?
On notice periods, there may be an issue here with the rental period as the OPs FIL has been paying the rent in 6 month blocks. Note also that rental periods run from the day after expiry of the original fixed term, which may or may not line up with a rent due date.
OP - you would benefit from qualified legal advice on this one. Many solicitors will offer a free initial interview and Legal Aid may be available.
Community legal advice link can put you in touch with someone, or the local law society can suggest a member who specialises in this area
Shelter 0808 800 4444 can also help
The local Council should also have a private sector housing officer who should help with potential PEA breaches.
Meanwhile, if you/your father need access to the property then ask for a police officer to attend "in case there is a breach of the law"
Does this LL also hold a tenancy deposit from the initial FT 3 years ago?0 -
Call Shelter and look to get some free legal advice. It certainly sounds like there would be a civil and criminal case against the (bar steward of a) landlord. A big issue is likely to be how far your FiL wants to pursue this - from a legal point of view, it does sound like your landlord would face problems.
If I'm reading right, the Landlord forced entry after your FiL had been away for under 3 weeks (with rent paid well in advance and LL having been told about the absence). Even if your FiL's place was messy (I'm not saying it was) that's not the LL's business until he moves out. It would be entertaining to see LL trying these justifications in court.0 -
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I think TBS means brach of the law too. the tenant still has the right of entry to live there. If the LL chooses not to let t return, that is clearly a breach of the law. Protection from eviction act section 1.:beer: Well aint funny how its the little things in life that mean the most? Not where you live, the car you drive or the price tag on your clothes.
Theres no dollar sign on piece of mind
This Ive come to know...
So if you agree have a drink with me, raise your glasses for a toast :beer:0
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