B&Q Wind Turbines (Merged Thread)

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

Andy_Spoo wrote:

Those people that say they know of cheaper alternatives, tell me where from.

Small local hobby businesses. People that don't have an internet 'presence', people that do it for fun or to help people become a little more green.

Goto some small-medium green festivals and meet many people like that, who can give you help and advice (and supply 'green' items). It's about networking rather than sitting at a computer clicking a mouse.

gromituk

freddix wrote:

(quoting Windsave bod) Assuming typical conditions most product failures occur on the "bath-tub" curve, i.e. within the settling period which Windsave has generously estimated at 2 years or after the design life.

If the company estimates that there will be few failures between two and ten (?) years, then why is it reluctant to extend the guarantee for that period? He's saying "we won't guarantee it because it won't go wrong." It doesn't make sense.

Moreover, two years is a long time for initial problems to show up. In fact he admits that it's a figure plucked out of the air to minimise their liability and yet to imply to the customer that the product is reliable because it has a longer guarantee than the standard one year. In other words, like the word "generously", simply marketing. (I was rather surprised at his candour here!)

(It's worth the standard reminder here that it is quite easy to take a company to court if a product doesn't last as long as one can reasonably expect it to - regardless of any "guarantees".)

Thanks for persuing this and reporting back.

(PS You mean "imply" rather than "infer" in your original email: the marketing material implies something to you; you infer something from it. )

Cardew

Freddix,
I admire your perseverance and wish you luck pursuing your ‘campaign’.

My gut feeling is that Windsave and B&Q will continue to use their carefully worded advertising material that keeps them(just) safe from legal action.

The simple truth is that the vast majority of people who buy these devices will have bought a ‘white elephant’ in terms of saving money and their capital outlay will never be repaid.

Unfortunately we live in an era where it is politically incorrect to question anything that claims to be environmentally sound. Financial logic and common sense disappear at the merest mention of a ‘green’ advantage. Firms are not slow to cynically take advantage of this situation.

If the claims of Windsave/B&Q could stand up to scrutiny they would be happy to let their system be evaluated independently by organisations and data published; anyone seen published data?

Even the Energy Saving Trust(a Government backed organisation) avoid making any statement about expected savings. It is a pity that BBC Watchdog or the Newspapers don’t expose these claims.

[Deleted User]

Cardew,

This web site might be interesting for you and others to follow.

http://www.warwickwindtrials.org.uk/index.html

"The Warwick Microwind Trial is a project to evaluate the contribution rooftop-mounted wind turbines may make to improving the energy performance of existing homes in the UK.

The aim is to collect and publish objective data on performance when the systems are used by real families and homeowners. We will also explore how easy it is to get systems installed on houses and what the barriers and real costs are. Most importantly, we aim to discover what impact installing these systems has on awareness of energy efficiency in the households with the systems and amongst members of the local community."

They have several sites with planning permission in place and just appear to be waiting on turbines to be installed.

Why do I feel that this could take some time!!!

I will continue to monitor the site to see whether any meaningful data comes out of it.

regards

FREDDIX

Cardew

freddix wrote:

Cardew,

This web site might be interesting for you and others to follow.

http://www.warwickwindtrials.org.uk/index.html

"The Warwick Microwind Trial is a project to evaluate the contribution rooftop-mounted wind turbines may make to improving the energy performance of existing homes in the UK.

The aim is to collect and publish objective data on performance when the systems are used by real families and homeowners. We will also explore how easy it is to get systems installed on houses and what the barriers and real costs are. Most importantly, we aim to discover what impact installing these systems has on awareness of energy efficiency in the households with the systems and amongst members of the local community."

They have several sites with planning permission in place and just appear to be waiting on turbines to be installed.

Why do I feel that this could take some time!!!

I will continue to monitor the site to see whether any meaningful data comes out of it.

regards

FREDDIX

Thank's hadn't seen that site - will be interesting to see the results next winter.

Of most interest is the example they give which shows that the annual saving in electricity costs is(wait for it) a whole £25 a year.(with electricity
10p/kWh)

So you pay £1,500 + maintenance + planning etc etc and save £25pa.

A joke - an expensive joke!

DesbDave

griff. wrote:

Coupla thoughts:

I wonder whether you can get a grant for this from one of the Energy Savings Trust connected programmes - looks as though you can, just choose your country: http://www.est.org.uk/myhome/generating/grants/

and

I'm still a bit confused about the Planning Permission status. Windsave themselves don't seem to be offering any firm guidance: have a look at their FAQ/Planning bit on http://www.windsave.com/. No offence to the talents of BQ Staff, but it feels that they may not be able to answer the relevant points on whether you need to ask your neighbours, legally.

Anyone got an update ?

The turbines come under the same category as satellite dishes for planning regulations I believe. My local council (Northants) foresees no problems with granting permission. Future legislation will remove the need for planning requirements on 'green sources'

A dti grant of upto £500 is available, after installation by accredited installers (fully included in the £1498 price from B+Q) subject to certain energy saving measures already in place - loft insulation, energy saving bulbs etc. An application form is supplied by the installation team filled in with their accredited details.

Any queries contact me 'ketteringgrassroots@ntlworld.com'

gromituk

DesbDave wrote:

subject to certain energy saving measures already in place - loft insulation, energy saving bulbs etc.

Not according to the response freddix got from Windsave - see above.

oops_a_daisy

sorry if already posted but I got a newsletter from Equigas today and I thought that I would pass this information on as it may help somebody here.

quote "One of the Government's conclusions was that 'domestic microgeneration' (i.e. putting a wind turbine or solar panels on the roof of your home) should be encouraged. To help that process, for customers who want to generate their own 'green' electricity, we've developed, along with our supply partners, Scottish & Southern Energy, an 'export' tariff for EQUIPOWER which pays you for all the electricity you generate and for any electricity you don't you yourself. Follow this link for more. http://www.ebico.co.uk/en/open/pages/renewable.php "

gromituk

The first thing it says in your link: "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The trouble with using a supposedly ‘green’ supplier of electricity is that you can never really be sure where the electricity flowing into your house has come from."

A true but pointless statement. It doesn't matter whether the energy you consume comes from a renewable source, so long as the energy you consume is displacing some use from a non-renewable source elsewhere, which it will be if you are on a green tarriff. In fact, the energy could well be being supplied by someone with a wind turbine etc exporting using the same scheme!

This company is being dishonest - avoid.
[/FONT]

fender

There is a major article on this in yesterday's Sunday Times and today's Daily Mail. Confirms many postings here.