wages falling - driven by migrant labour

Gorgeous_George

My view is that anybody, UK national or immigrant, who works 40 hours per week should not need state benefits in order to live.

IMO, benefits are a back-door way of subsidising employers. If people were paid correctly, there would be less need for taxes.

Raise the minimum wage to a sensible level.

Raise the tax threshold to £10,000.

Collect the tax required from income tax only. Other taxes are tax on top of tax and must be unfair.



GG

moomin-mama_2

catkins wrote:

But we can't just move to France, Australia etc and live there can we? In France you have to prove that you can support yourself and any family you have. It is very very difficult to get a job there even if you speak fluent French because they always employ their own first (and why not?). I am pretty sure countries like Portugal and Italy have the same restrictions. You are not entitled to any benefits even after a year or more and you have to pay for healthcare. To go to countries such as Australia you need a visa and if you very lucky you will get one for a year and no longer. Often they are only for 6 months

Don't forget, Poles cannot get any benefits for at least 2 years if they move here, they have to be working and paying taxes etc. For other EU residents there are the habitually resident rules which exclude you from benefits. Others ie from Australia will have 'no recourse to public funds' stamped on their passports meaning they can't claim benefits, housing etc.

Yes there is the 'black market' always has been. Don't assume that everyone who comes into the country are entitled to benefits or other public funds, its not true despite what the media say.

peter999

moomin-mama wrote:

Don't forget, Poles cannot get any benefits for at least 2 years if they move here, they have to be working and paying taxes etc.

2 years isn't very long, for more than half a million new residents (& rising) to access benefits system.

I have already seen Poles in a Job Centre trying to claim benefits.

The NHS/benefits system is going to be overwhelmed.
I think this country/the government is completely naive & still doesn't know what is coming !!
.

moomin-mama_2

Surely if you've been paying tax and NI into the system you should be able to claim if you need it? Or are you saying they should pay their way but go home if they want any of it back?

ianian99

moomin-mama wrote:

Don't forget, Poles cannot get any benefits for at least 2 years if they move here, they have to be working and paying taxes etc. For other EU residents there are the habitually resident rules which exclude you from benefits. Others ie from Australia will have 'no recourse to public funds' stamped on their passports meaning they can't claim benefits, housing etc.

Yes there is the 'black market' always has been. Don't assume that everyone who comes into the country are entitled to benefits or other public funds, its not true despite what the media say.

but there are ways they can claim benefits before the 2 years and even almost straight away if they know how to work the system!!

Bogof_Babe

My concern is that they do apparently live in overcrowded conditions, e.g. 14 people in a two-bedroom flat, that would be considered totally unacceptable by the majority of home-grown citizens.

There are two ways this can be tackled - either build thousands more "affordable" (whatever that means) homes to accommodate the overspill, or convince the rest of us that 14 people to a small house or flat is the way to go in future.

I have no idea which side the coin will fall, but I don't think we will like the result, whatever it is.

peter999

moomin-mama wrote:

Surely if you've been paying tax and NI into the system you should be able to claim if you need it? Or are you saying they should pay their way but go home if they want any of it back?

So you think an unlimited number of migrants who work for 1-2 years
can then access the benefits system.

-why ??
-they can use NHS immediately.

I don't understand how working 1-2 years should allow full access to benefits system that
does not exist in their country & has been built over a lifetime.

It's ludicrous & NHS/benefits system will go into meltdown
I'm sure you'll be happy to pay.

peter999

eamon

Oh dear, I feel another short essay is on the way. By the way migration within the EU is one of my specialist subjects and its a great discussion topic in pubs. Peter999, do I detect a bit of xenophobia? You and me should meet in a pub sometime. Anyway.
You will find Poles, Czechs. Latvians etc in the Jobcentres. They have to go there in order to apply for and get a National Insurance number. You cannot work legally in the UK without one. By sheer coincidence in the Jobcenter they also have some jobs on display. By the same token we/you can go to any other EU country and apply for work and again you have to seek official permission. Many years ago I worked in Germany and before my new employers could start me I had to go to the tax office (in Germany many state offices are multi functional) and fill in loads of forms. If memory serves me the only documents needed was my passport to prove that I was an EU citizen and entitled to work in Germany. The process is a bit different here but as already said a migrant from an EU country will need a NI number, hence the visit to a jobcentre (also triggers tax) Employers also have to check that the people applying for work are legally entitled to work here i.e. are EU citizens.
As for any drains on our health service and other public services I think that is a load of tosh. Every EU country has some form of subsidised health system in place. You just don't get health tourists coming here. If the papers are to be believed our hospitals are overrun with MRSA (suberbug) and NHS dentists are like rocking horse droppings. Why would anybody come here for the health care? It's too dangerous apparently.
It is possible that some migrants are now entitled to benefits such as JSA. But why would they want to. In the UK JSA would only replace 1/4 the earnings of somebody on for example £12000 pa. Any self respecting person would surely go temping, it pays better!
Thus Peter999 it may be useful to ask why these people are here. Its not for the state benefits thats for sure. Maybe its because there is plenty of work here and there are lots of British citizens who would rather not work and or don't like the work that is available.

yours

Eamon

moomin-mama_2

peter999 wrote:

So you think an unlimited number of migrants who work for 1-2 years
can then access the benefits system.

-why ??
-they can use NHS immediately.

I don't understand how working 1-2 years should allow full access to benefits system that
does not exist in their country & has been built over a lifetime.

It's ludicrous & NHS/benefits system will go into meltdown
I'm sure you'll be happy to pay.

peter999

I wasn't aware that posting my opinions could/should lead to a personal attack!!

I have my opinions based on facts not media hype (degree, working in benefits, NHS, homelessness etc etc) and don't feel the need to put anyone else down just because they hold a different opinion to me. I'm happy to live in a multicultural society but apparently you're not. Whats ours is ours and everyone else can bu**er off eh?? That's your opinion not mine and I'm not apologising for it.

Woby_Tide

maybe everyone who has had a wage drop whilst in the same job recently could post what they have had to drop to and why, just to back up the statistics