We've been Gazundered!

tawse57

tyllwyd wrote: »

So you are saying that there is no honour in business transations? If you have freely agreed a price between yourselves there is no shame in coming back when you feel you have the other party at a disadvantage and trying to beat them down further? All I can say is I'm glad I don't do business with you.

I remember being 8 or 9 years old and there was a question in an English language exam about British honour - after reading a text on how the British empire was built on honour and an Englishman's word and handshake were better than any written contract there were several questions relating to that.

I am now mid 40s and up until about 4 years ago I still naively believed the guff that I was told when I was a kid. I am embarassed to admit that I have been naive for most of my life but I guess you still are?

Look around you - look at what the banks have done and what they continue to do. Where money is concerned you are a fool is you believe in someone's word.

Btw, when I sold up 3 years ago the week before exchanging my buyer came back and wanted 20K off. I told him that i would take 2K if he exchanged within 24 hours - which he did.

tawse57

westlondonbuyer wrote: »

Not as gutted as I was (and still am). If I'd known I'd have gone back to her

In the past 2 years I have followed a few houses in my area, several in fact, where the EA or the seller would not countenance anything below the askin price only for myself to learn, via the land registry later on, that the houses not only sold below asking price but often below my offer.

Hence why, when Oct comes, I will begin to put in seriously low offers on houses I am interested in - 20% to 25% off at least and put 4 to 6 week timelimits on the offers.

If your offer does not embarass you then it is too high.

tyllwyd

tawse57 wrote: »

...I am now mid 40s and up until about 4 years ago I still naively believed the guff that I was told when I was a kid. I am embarassed to admit that I have been naive for most of my life but I guess you still are?

Look around you - look at what the banks have done and what they continue to do. Where money is concerned you are a fool is you believe in someone's word. ...

I never said that I don't believe that these things happen. I said I don't think it is honourable to go back on your word just because you think the person you are dealing with is in a weaker position than you. You obviously have lower standards - your choice.

tiny_tear

tawse57 wrote: »

That is just being incedibly naive and arrogant. What an ego. What a huge naive ego!

Frankly, people like you disgust me. Up on your high horses looking down on the rest of us thinking you are somehow superior.

Is this how you intend to live your life? How is that working out for you?

So because someone is honest and wants to be honest they are on a high horse? and they disgust you?

Glad to disgust you as I would not gazump or gazunder anyone. Don't do unto others what you don't want done to yourself.

tyllwyd

tawse57 wrote: »

...Frankly, people like you disgust me. Up on your high horses looking down on the rest of us thinking you are somehow superior. ...

Saying I don't think it is honourable to go back on your word makes me disgustingly arrogant?

Oh well, I guess we are not going to agree on this one.

wodgerdodger

tawse57 wrote: »

This is where having a mortgage and having to get a survey to please the bank wins over being a cash buyer for someone buying a house.

Often the seller is totally unrealistic with the price they are demanding so the bank survey is the one that brings them to reality - so I do understand buyers offering the full asking price but having no intention of paying it.

Sadly, it seems the only way to get many sellers to see sense nowadays.

Let us all know when you put your house up for slae please!

Orpheo

tawse57 wrote: »

I remember being 8 or 9 years old and there was a question in an English language exam about British honour - after reading a text on how the British empire was built on honour and an Englishman's word and handshake were better than any written contract there were several questions relating to that.

I am now mid 40s and up until about 4 years ago I still naively believed the guff that I was told when I was a kid. I am embarassed to admit that I have been naive for most of my life but I guess you still are?

Look around you - look at what the banks have done and what they continue to do. Where money is concerned you are a fool is you believe in someone's word.

Btw, when I sold up 3 years ago the week before exchanging my buyer came back and wanted 20K off. I told him that i would take 2K if he exchanged within 24 hours - which he did.

Exactly. The British Empire was built on theft, exploitation and plunder. It is now ingrained into our psyche. So much so that we are willing to steal from others and justify it as their fault. They are savages, they are heathens, they are muslim, they asked for it, they left it unguarded, they're a business so they can afford it. Theft exploitation and plunder built the British Empire, feudalism, not honour and cricket.

Gazundering, isn't the same, the vendor still has the choice not to sell. Gazundering is, for the most part, a despicable practice as it earns the vendor's trust through false promises and prevents the vendor from accepting more genuine offers. On the other hand I wonder whether the OP would be posting in such an outraged tone had another buyer come along and offered 10K to 20K more?

Pont

As a previous poster stated in relation to Spain - in France there is also a clause which can state the offer is made subject to survey/mortgage approval etc. Armed with that clause the vendor can choose to proceed, or not as they prefer.

With regards to the 10% issue. As previously mentioned, if the purchaser doesn't have 10% of the purchase price then perhaps they're not best placed to buy a property as a mortgage company wouldn't approve them anyway. From the vendors point of view the 10% is only usually billed to the seller if they pull out after the cooling off period (so they don't have to find the 10% upfront).

Although no system is perfect, IMO the French/Spanish way is much fairer to both parties as the 10% shows a willingness to buy on the part of the purchaser, and a willingness to sell on the part of the vendor. It actively discourages the practice of either gazumping or gazundering due to the 10% penalty payable to the 'wronged' party.

mudshark

I first heard about gazundering in the mid-90s when I was looking to buy my first house. I got friendly with an EA who gave me all sorts of useful information including how gazundering works and that he's done it; it's easy for him as he has access to solicitors and surveyors who will do work for him cheaply as he will returns the favour. The funny thing is that when I came to sell my house a few years later I decided I didn't want to sell through him as he'd told me about so many other not-so-nice things he'd got up to!

Gazundering and gazumping happen most when the market is going up or down significantly so best to be aware of them and try to minimize the chances of them happening - not easy but I chose not to buy a house from a guy who seemed a bit of a wide boy and instead bought my current house from a solid seeming sort of a chap. When I picked up the keys was told that someone had tried to gazump me despite the vendor saying he wasn't interested, in the end the vendor instructed the EA to tell them to 'pi55 off'!

sonastin

Both gazumping and gazundering are wrong in principle. A just society filled with good and honourable citizens would not accept either practice.

But back in the real world, buying property is such a significant transaction and there are so many reasons which can legitimately lead to the failure of the transaction once it is agreed. This makes it TOO DARN HARD to draft a suitable law to protect the innocent from the underhand and greedy, whilst leaving open the rights of all to alter the terms of the transaction as new information comes available.

All of the alternatives that are suggested (French, Spanish, Scottish) have their drawbacks alongside their advantages. No system is perfect. The previous government had an unfortunate habit of rushing out new laws without thinking through all of the consequences. I would hate for that to happen in relation to property buying.

Whilst gazundering and gazumping are horrible tactics, I would prefer to rely on people's honour (yes there are still some honourable people out there, and the majority do not choose to tell lies to win themselves an extra £10k) and keep the system that is already in place than to try to come up with a new way of doing things that solves this one problem only to bring in a whole new kind of trouble.

Just my twopenneth...