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The Golden Rule and safe payments.
Hannah_10
Posts: 1,774 Forumite
The golden rule of dealing with your debts is "everything in writing". This is a very tidy three words long, however it's also easy to misinterpret, so here's a clearer explaination...
"In Writing" means letters.
Emails don't have the same standing in a court. Part of what you will be trying to do when in debt is to get it cleared with the minimum of court involvement and any court involvement there has to be to go in your favour. So it's important you use the right form of contact.
Always send everything signed for.
If I had a quid for every letter I had sent that had been alledgedly lost in the post over the years I'd be a happy girl! Your creditors will read your letter, and then if it suits them they may well file it straight in the shredder and deny they got it. They can't do this if you send letters by signed for post and check back on the Royal Mail website to make sure they arrived (the reference and website are on your posting receipt).
Always keep a copy of everything you send.
This includes any cheques you send. This is so that later, should you ever have to show the paperwork to anyone, you can prove not only that you sent something, but what exactly the something was.
Don't phone them.
The reason they want you to phone them is because on the phone they can tell lies and they can bully you. In fact, the strength of desire of the creditor to speak to you on the phone is almost directly proportional to the dodginess of the debt. They know you can't prove what was said on the phone, you can't prove the frequency of the calls, you can't prove what you said to them either. Don't leave yourself vulnerable to that.
Don't answer security questions if they phone you.
For the same reasons as above the phone is not a method of communication that is to your own advantage. If they call you they must ask security questions, simply tell them that you refuse to answer them and if they have something to say they can put it in writing. If they discuss anything at all with you without you clearing the security questions, or if they discuss anything with a third party, then they are in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.
Be aware at all times you have rights.
You may not know exactly what those rights are but you do have rights. By following the golden rule you are keeping yourself as safe as possible from unwanted court action, keeping the creditor accountable for what they say and leaving your options open to complain to an appropriate body later, if you have cause.
Safe payments.
There are safe and unsafe ways to pay a creditor, the safe ways do not leave a channel open for them to take more than you agreed.
Safe: By cheque, postal order, bankers draft, standing order, in cash as an over the counter payment.
Unsafe: Direct debit, any kind of card payment (including online card payments), any payment where they want your bank or card details but you're not clear on how exactly payment works.
Can go either way: Online bank to bank transfers, you need to be clear (by asking the bank) about the kind of transfer this is. So you need to ask if the creditor you are paying can access your money again, or if this is an unrepeatable one-off at an amount set by you alone.
"In Writing" means letters.
Emails don't have the same standing in a court. Part of what you will be trying to do when in debt is to get it cleared with the minimum of court involvement and any court involvement there has to be to go in your favour. So it's important you use the right form of contact.
Always send everything signed for.
If I had a quid for every letter I had sent that had been alledgedly lost in the post over the years I'd be a happy girl! Your creditors will read your letter, and then if it suits them they may well file it straight in the shredder and deny they got it. They can't do this if you send letters by signed for post and check back on the Royal Mail website to make sure they arrived (the reference and website are on your posting receipt).
Always keep a copy of everything you send.
This includes any cheques you send. This is so that later, should you ever have to show the paperwork to anyone, you can prove not only that you sent something, but what exactly the something was.
Don't phone them.
The reason they want you to phone them is because on the phone they can tell lies and they can bully you. In fact, the strength of desire of the creditor to speak to you on the phone is almost directly proportional to the dodginess of the debt. They know you can't prove what was said on the phone, you can't prove the frequency of the calls, you can't prove what you said to them either. Don't leave yourself vulnerable to that.
Don't answer security questions if they phone you.
For the same reasons as above the phone is not a method of communication that is to your own advantage. If they call you they must ask security questions, simply tell them that you refuse to answer them and if they have something to say they can put it in writing. If they discuss anything at all with you without you clearing the security questions, or if they discuss anything with a third party, then they are in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.
Be aware at all times you have rights.
You may not know exactly what those rights are but you do have rights. By following the golden rule you are keeping yourself as safe as possible from unwanted court action, keeping the creditor accountable for what they say and leaving your options open to complain to an appropriate body later, if you have cause.
Safe payments.
There are safe and unsafe ways to pay a creditor, the safe ways do not leave a channel open for them to take more than you agreed.
Safe: By cheque, postal order, bankers draft, standing order, in cash as an over the counter payment.
Unsafe: Direct debit, any kind of card payment (including online card payments), any payment where they want your bank or card details but you're not clear on how exactly payment works.
Can go either way: Online bank to bank transfers, you need to be clear (by asking the bank) about the kind of transfer this is. So you need to ask if the creditor you are paying can access your money again, or if this is an unrepeatable one-off at an amount set by you alone.
I refuse to be afraid of the big bad wolf, spiders, or debt collection agencies; one of them's not real and the other two are powerless without my fear.
(Ok, one of them is powerless, spiders can be nasty.)
As of the last count I have cleared [STRIKE]23.16%[/STRIKE] 22.49% of my debt.
(Ok, one of them is powerless, spiders can be nasty.)
As of the last count I have cleared [STRIKE]23.16%[/STRIKE] 22.49% of my debt.
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Comments
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I can guess what started this topic hannah, given a post we both responded to this morning.
I would add in a little extra to your topic on safe payments.
Unsafe payments, What can i do when it has gone wrong.
Direct debit - Debit debits work by the creditor requesting payment, generally this is used for bills as the payment per month can fluctuate. This means if you have setup a direct debit and the creditor/DCA has requested more than the informally agreed payment you made with them, it will still be processed by the bank. As such if you have funds in your account they will be taken by the direct debit. If funds are not available you will generally be charged by your bank for a failed direct debit transaction. However, direct debit is protected by the direct debit guarantee shown here ( LINK ). Simply put this gives you the right to a full refund of any direct debit taken out of your account, if a creditor has taken to much or abused the direct debit by constant and unagreed payments contact your bank immediately for a refund.
This is not a safe payment method, so regardless having/not having a problem you should cancel the direct debit in writing.
Card payments -When a creditor/DCA has your card details, they make a charge against those details for an amount of money. This is obviously open to abuse as a creditor/DCA can request more than the agreed amount and make multiple requests for payment even on the same day. Like direct debits if you have funds the payments will be made, if you do not you are usually charged by your bank in line with the terms and conditions. Since you handed over your card details this is not fraud, but a set of unauthorised transactions. Since there is no protection with bank cards, it can make it difficult to reclaim money paid out. Again you must notify the bank as soon as you see such transactions on your account then fill out and return any paperwork they send to you. In some cases your bank will recover the money in others they will not, as lack of a written agreement means you cannot show what the agreed payment was but you did voluntarily give them your card details.
This is not a safe payment method, so if you have given them your card details, report your card as lost to the bank and have a new card issued. This protects against future payments.Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies0 -
Yeah DC, I seem to be saying the same thing about "everything in writing" quite a lot, so I thought I'd make a post about it then I could just add the link rather than type the whole lot out each time. Thanks for the "what can you do about it" bits too, is also valuable info.I refuse to be afraid of the big bad wolf, spiders, or debt collection agencies; one of them's not real and the other two are powerless without my fear.
(Ok, one of them is powerless, spiders can be nasty.)
As of the last count I have cleared [STRIKE]23.16%[/STRIKE] 22.49% of my debt.
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Well done Hannah - this is an excellent thread and will be of great help to those dealing with creditors/DCA's
by 3Dogs :T :T :T Mr 3Dogs 3-7-12 3Dogs'Mam 31-3-13
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I think this excellent advice needs to be a stickyFind out who you are and do that on purpose (thanks to Owain Wyn Jones quoting Dolly Parton)0
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:THi Hannah,
Well done on another excellent, informative post:T.
Red:rotfl:If you've nothing decent to say, perhaps you shouldn't say anything.
£2 savings jar £300:D
Total credit card debts £1250:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: - Will I ever learn!!0 -
Hi Hannah
Great post I have put everything in writing since a rather large bank with a black horse logo denied having set up a reduced payment over the phone and took the money that put me into an overdraft I was trying to reduce,my question is though what happens when a creditor who refuses your offer of repayment on a DMP then sends you a letter to say they will not respond to anymore corespondance and will file any future letters do I keep writing aswell as keep paying and at what stage do they decide to take you to court even after all the advice from a debt charity about making pro rata offers of only what you can afford0 -
I didn't think they could simply refuse to correspond with you in writing. I'm sure someone will be along with the particulars, but they can't just say "phone calls only" or anything like that. They have to show some level of cooperation, especially if they plan to take it to court at some point. And I certainly can't imagine them putting that in writing - wouldn't that sink their boat if you produced it for the court as to why you hadn't been able to come to a payment arrangement?MSE mum of DS(7), and DS(4) (and 2 adult DCs as well!)DFW Long haul supporters No 210:snow_grin Christmas 2013 is coming soon!!! :xmastree:0
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I didn't think they could simply refuse to correspond with you in writing. I'm sure someone will be along with the particulars, but they can't just say "phone calls only" or anything like that. They have to show some level of cooperation, especially if they plan to take it to court at some point. And I certainly can't imagine them putting that in writing - wouldn't that sink their boat if you produced it for the court as to why you hadn't been able to come to a payment arrangement?
Everyone has an address, not everyone has a landline/mobile/email(internet) account. They have to accept written communication.Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies0 -
"In Writing" means letters.
Emails don't have the same standing in a court. Part of what you will be trying to do when in debt is to get it cleared with the minimum of court involvement and any court involvement there has to be to go in your favour. So it's important you use the right form of contact.
Hi Hannah
Great post with really sound advice.
Regards emails I found them invaluable for communication with my payday loan companies and a couple of other creditors due to speed of response and being able to keep them 'at arms length'.
At appropriate points I then sent written confirmation of email discussions (printing off email trail).
SnVLBM & Debt July 2010 [STRIKE]£19,000[/STRIKE] now - £11,619.60 Long Haul Supporter #247
Remember Income > Expenditure = MSE Heaven :A and Income < Expenditure MSE Hell
Current STB (sticking to budget) Counter - day 109 (Personal Best - 109 days!)0 -
It feels like I have linked to this thread about 2 or 3 dozen times in the last couple of days so I think it might be time to bump it, for people to generally read it.I refuse to be afraid of the big bad wolf, spiders, or debt collection agencies; one of them's not real and the other two are powerless without my fear.
(Ok, one of them is powerless, spiders can be nasty.)
As of the last count I have cleared [STRIKE]23.16%[/STRIKE] 22.49% of my debt.
0
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