Winter benefits payment idea.

linuxsapien

Not only do the old and frail suffer, but also the fair few others also who get winter payments.

As mentioned in the other thread, its a shame that ALLOT of people end up spending this benefit on other amenities other than what it is meant for. And don't get me wrong, even I have been guilty of this, sometimes not even realising it, because it just goes straight into the bank pot.

A simple idea would be for the Winter benefits to transferred to the the energy company direct into the customers credit. Or if they are on key systems, to have a key with the credit sent to the customer.

Its not like its difficult, since they already have other ways of paying debts direct from benefits. (see council tax, TVL, etc). In this digital age, its hardly going to be a burden either to set up.

Here's hoping its not as cold as our last winter. Stay warm, and don't forget about your neighbours.

KimYeovil

You haven't thought this through, have you?

An automatic payment paid by one party only dependent on age of the recipient is straight-forward. You want to complicate this by adding two third parties (gas and electricity) and the pensioner could easily be switching every year or two (or even more frequently). I thought there were drives to minimise complications? It would be a burden. And wholly unnecessary (and patronising and insulting).l

HappyMJ

What if the pensioner uses a coal fire? Or a oil fired system? Not everybody has Gas/Electric for heating.

linuxsapien

Still amazes me how few people can make someone's ideas look so damn negative.

Its unlikely a pensioner would be changing every year or so, a vast number of them have zero internet connection or any other means to do this. Most retired ill-informed customers will probably be with the same supplier for decades.

As for being complicated, a burden, patronising and unnecessary, KimYeovil I will need to take that as trolling, until you explain each further, my apologies.

I agree HappyMJ, I never thought about the alternative fuels allot of people must use. Those would most likely have to be paid direct.

Just a wee idea, remember

Pincher

There used to be a Hari Krishna restaurant, where you can get free food, but you have to attend their brainwashing session upstairs. Salvation Army did the same thing. The term rice bowl Christian applies to millions around the world. The church knows you don't give without conditions, baecause freebies without conditions are just burning money, the people receiving them will use them anyway they choose. It's easier to give away money in reaction to some frozen corpse headlines, than to actually look after people.

If you actually want to impose condition on handouts, you can force the unemployed into doing social work, in exchange for the various benefits they get. If they don't turn up, they lose the benefits. It's a modern twist on slavery, you have a bunch of unwilling slaves that don't want to work, does it badly when whipped, and you have to hire a whole army of slave drivers. To make it work, you have to remove the right to vote for the slaves.

Conclusion: give a token freebie, and pretend the problem is solved.

Cardew

I really cannot see any logic to your suggestion.

Firstly it has been stated that the reason WFA is a non-means tested payment is that the administration costs of means testing would be huge. Yet you want to get the Government to find out which gas/electricity/LPG/oil/solid fuel supplier every 60 year old is using(and keep this information constantly updated), get each of these suppliers to credit these accounts - bearing in mind that if someone moves house or changes supplier they will have to apportion the £250/£400 between suppliers!! Any idea of the additional administration costs.

Please explain to me how it will help a pensioner(or 60+) who has a minimal income of, say, £8000 pa with the WFA, to pay them £7750 and give the utility company £250?

Some pensioners don't spend enough on food and clothes - should we give them food and clothing coupons and reduce their retirement pensions!

TaxPayingMug

nutellajunkie wrote: »

Not only do the old and frail suffer, but also the fair few others also who get winter payments.

As mentioned in the other thread, its a shame that ALLOT of people end up spending this benefit on other amenities other than what it is meant for. And don't get me wrong, even I have been guilty of this, sometimes not even realising it, because it just goes straight into the bank pot.

A simple idea would be for the Winter benefits to transferred to the the energy company direct into the customers credit. Or if they are on key systems, to have a key with the credit sent to the customer.

Its not like its difficult, since they already have other ways of paying debts direct from benefits. (see council tax, TVL, etc). In this digital age, its hardly going to be a burden either to set up.

Here's hoping its not as cold as our last winter. Stay warm, and don't forget about your neighbours.

Nope...disagree completely.
The best way to deal with it is to STOP IT ALTOGETHER!

Then means test it and give it to the people that actually require it.

Disabled people don't get it - Just as, if not more vulnerable
Households with children don't get it - Are children less important than old people...it appears so.
People that have low incomes don't get it.

I know that old people suffer with the cold more, but the rest of the country isn't magically insulated you know.

TaxPayingMug

It's a modern twist on slavery, you have a bunch of unwilling slaves that don't want to work, does it badly when whipped, and you have to hire a whole army of slave drivers. To make it work, you have to remove the right to vote for the slaves.

I would vote for that.
Get the 'great unwashed' off their backsides to earn there dole money.

Pincher

TaxPayingMug wrote: »

I would vote for that.
Get the 'great unwashed' off their backsides to earn there dole money.

All it takes is a new version of the Job Seeker's Allowance application form. In the Key Facts area:

* You will need to perform allocated work assigned by DWP, failure to do so will result in losing benefits.
* You will lose the right to vote for the duration of claim

with supporting small print:

12.3.1 The DWP has total discretion in the time, location and manner of work.
12.3.2 We may transport you to distant locations and back at our expense, and provide you with accomodation up to a minimum standard.
12.3.3 You have the right to food, water and shelter as guaranteed
by the European Human Rights charter.
12.4.1 Without the right to vote, you have no MP representation, and the only channel of appeal is your DWP case officer
12.4.2 You waive your right to form a union
12.4.3 By signing this application, you agree to waive all Human Rights and Civil Liberties.

Oh, and an Act of Parliament. Write to your MP.

Some people don't vote any way, so it's not a big deal, is it?;)

Premier_2

HappyMJ wrote: »

What if the pensioner uses a coal fire? Or a oil fired system? Not everybody has Gas/Electric for heating.

Perhaps the payments would need to be sent to the coalman, or the the oil supplier, or the gas delivery company if this is supplied by bottles (which of course the customer may be changing the source of with each purchase) or perhaps even the farmer/forester if they buy logs from there.

Like a previous poster has said, I don't think the OP has thought this through properly, as well as it being another step towards the nanny state.

Maiking people more responsible for themselves has to be the way forward, and that means making them responsible for handling their own income (perhaps though improved education if necessary). It worked years ago, why change things now?

Edit: Or perhaps you like the American way? Let's stop all cash benefits. Give those who really need it food stamps, or in this case energy stamps, to buy the essentials to live? :huh:
I don't think even the yanks issue fag or liquor stamps do they?