Road tax fine con!!!!

johnthebuilder

Okay, either I'm a complete idiot or just missing the point.

My van was hit by an uninsured driver. To cut a long story short the van sat on my drive for months while I chased the uninsured driver. Sent in a Sorn declaration but apparently DVLA did not receive it. I didn't think anything of it as I posted it myself.

Finally decided to get the van repaired myself and spoke and arranged for it to be collected by a local garage. I was advised that they would not be able to collect it from my drive as they would not accept liability for damage to the drive caused by the truck they would send to collect it.

The night before I put the van on the road as I new it was going to be collected the following morning.

At 8.02am the following morning the van was clamped for not having road tax. I tried explaining this to DVLA but they weren't interested.

Anyway, I paid £100 to release the clamp and further £160 in 'lieu of road tax'. Again, thinking nothing of it I went on my way.

A few weeks later I received a fine for £80 for not having roadtax. I decided it was a mistake as I had already paid the fine. A few weeks went by and I received a letter from a debt recovery company. I called them trying to explain that I had already paid the fine and they said there was nothing they could do as DVLA had instructed them to collect the debt. I then called DVLA who told me there was nothing they could do as they had already passed the debt over to the debt recovery company.

This is where the idiot inside me came out. I thought I know I'll wait for the court date and just explain it to them that there was a mistake.

Fast forward to the court date yesterday. I could not get time off so decided to write into the court and explain exactly what had happened.

I told them that I had been clamped, paid the release fee, paid the fine 'in lieu of road tax' totalling £260. Sent them a copy of the receipt which clearly states 'in lieu of road tax' £160. Explained that to fine me a further £80 would be fining me for the same offence twice which I did not feel justified in paying.

Okay, surely that seems clear????? YES??? NO????

I asked the court to deal with it in my absence as it seems pretty clear cut that I'm being fined twice for the same offence.

Okay, called the court today to find out the out come.

SHOCK!!! HORROR!!!

The court has now fined me a further £350 plus £46.50 plus court costs of £60 for not paying the £80.

What f*@#ing planet am I living on.

Has anybody come across this before.

HELPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mrbadexample

I think where you've got mixed up is the payment of £160 wasn't a fine, it was for the backdated tax the DVLA think you should have had.

So you haven't been fined twice. You've been fined once (£80), and had to pay some arrears (£160).

The court would have had little option but to find you guilty of not paying the fine.

Having said that, I do think you've been a bit (lot!) hard done by.

johnthebuilder

Yes, that's right.

I not trying to say I shouldn't have been fined because I did make an error in judgement by leaving the van on the road for the garage to collect.

I know I was wrong and I accepted the fine and paid for it.

My debate is over why after paying the fine and paying the fine in lieu of having road tax. DVLA decided in their infinite wisdom that I should be fined a further £80 for the same offence and why the court found it fit to fine me a further £350 for not paying the second fine for the same offence.

Surely, I'm missing something???

johnthebuilder

mrbadexample wrote: »

I think where you've got mixed up is the payment of £160 wasn't a fine, it was for the backdated tax the DVLA think you should have had.

So you haven't been fined twice. You've been fined once (£80), and had to pay some arrears (£160).

The court would have had little option but to find you guilty of not paying the fine.

Having said that, I do think you've been a bit (lot!) hard done by.

I think that's incorrect they've asked me to pay a further £46.50 to cover the arrears the £160 was as it states on the receipt 'in lieu of road tax'.

mrbadexample

Thinking further, did the damage to your van make it clearly unusable? I'm thinking if you could write (very politely) to the DVLA, enclose pictures of the vehicle in an undriveable state, combined with a supporting letter from the garage confirming that they had arranged to collect it but would not do so from your driveway, you might have some joy. You could thereby show that the vehicle could not have been in use, and was awaiting collection for repair.

TBH, this is probably all a bit too late. I'd have challenged the £160 back payment at the time, and contested the fine on the same basis. I'm not saying I'd have got anywhere, but I'd have had a go.

johnthebuilder

mrbadexample wrote: »

Thinking further, did the damage to your van make it clearly unusable? I'm thinking if you could write (very politely) to the DVLA, enclose pictures of the vehicle in an undriveable state, combined with a supporting letter from the garage confirming that they had arranged to collect it but would not do so from your driveway, you might have some joy. You could thereby show that the vehicle could not have been in use, and was awaiting collection for repair.

TBH, this is probably all a bit too late. I'd have challenged the £160 back payment at the time, and contested the fine on the same basis. I'm not saying I'd have got anywhere, but I'd have had a go.

Thanks, tried that already. I have a photograph of the vehicle and a letter from the garage explaining that they were due to pick the vehicle up between 11am and 1pm. DVLA are just not interested.

mrbadexample

johnthebuilder wrote: »

I know I was wrong and I accepted the fine and paid for it.

You paid, but not the fine. You paid a clamp removal charge and a payment in lieu of road tax. The fine that came later went unpaid, hence the court summons.

You might at least get somewhere if you challenge the £46.50 for arrears, as you have already paid £160, so it does seem as though they have charged you twice here.

Bob_the_Saver

Why didn't you query it when you didn't receive confirmation that the vehicle was SORN from DVLA?

You should receive your acknowledgement letter within four weeks. If you do not receive this you should contact DVLA on 0300 790 6802 immediately.

You can declare Statutory Off Road Notification, known as SORN, directly over the internet (and print it out), or at a Post Office and get a receipt (Where you tax the vehicle).

Unless you send something recorded delivery and then check, just assume it might not get there.

mrbadexample

johnthebuilder wrote: »

Thanks, tried that already. I have a photograph of the vehicle and a letter from the garage explaining that they were due to pick the vehicle up between 11am and 1pm. DVLA are just not interested.

Stubborn sods, aren't they? I really can't see where you can go from here if you've tried that already. You could perhaps appeal the court's decision, ask for the case to be reheard, then turn up in person to plead your case. Other than that, I'm out of ideas.

darich

I don't think you've been fined anything twice.
£100 to release from clamp
£160 in lieu of road tax - effectively this is road tax backdated because you had none - not a fine
£80 fine for having no road tax....which was ignored

£350 fine at court for not paying the original £80
£46.50 could be additional road tax working on the assumption you've not bought a tax disc for the van - effectively "in lieu of road tax" as before
£60 court costs.

I don't think anything has been double charged.

I do think that with hindsight you could have done things differently and perhaps avoided the situation but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I would have been inclined to write with the state of the van and confirmation that garage was uplifting a non roadworthy/undriveable vehicle. It seems you've already done that so I'm not sure what the next step would be.

johnthebuilder

mrbadexample wrote: »

You paid, but not the fine. You paid a clamp removal charge and a payment in lieu of road tax. The fine that came later went unpaid, hence the court summons.

You might at least get somewhere if you challenge the £46.50 for arrears, as you have already paid £160, so it does seem as though they have charged you twice here.

Okay, I'll take that on board. However, I've read all the paperwork several times and on the back in the smallest of print it says 'the vehicle has been seen without a valid tax disc'. If this is what the so called fine is for then what is the £160 in lieu of road tax for.

If I've paid £160 in lieu of road tax then surely it's apparent that there was either no tax disc or an expired tax disc.

So trying to make sense of it all this means. I should pay £160 in lieu of road tax. I should then pay £46.50 to cover the period of road tax and then I should pay £80 as there was no valid road tax.

So really I should bless my cotton socks that I'm only paying three times for exactly the same period.