Any rights to negatives?

Cloud0

My sister hired a photography service last month for her wedding. They made alot of claims on their website of how they provide a professional service with pictures that are of high standard. Their website does not provide much information about their services and all prices and what it is included in their service was provided via telephone. What was in the package for £1100 is 8 hours of filming, pictures taken throughout the day, 100 print outs (pictures) and two DVD's. They have sent a sample CD so that she can choose her 100 prints. I have mentioned the word sample because they have their logo all over the pictures. The pictures vary within quality, some pictures are clear and some pictures are not in focus. On the day the "qualified" photographer was rude, obnoxious, he felt that is was fine to push people in order to get people to move out the way or get them into a certain position he liked. He was annoyed that the bride kept blinking, ruining his shots (he only takes one shot each time he wants to take a picture). Also, when the photographer and his crew arrived at the restaurant, for some time, all they did was sit around (I have proof of this). Now what my sister thought was included was the negatives on a CD but after a recent telephone call, she has found out that it is not the case. My mother made the phone call to book them and what they are claiming was that it was agreed over the telephone that there would be no negatives. this was not discussed at all. They are claiming the rights to do whatever they wish and that if my sister wants these negatives on a CD, it will cost her a further £180. Can anyone advise on if this is true? I understand that photographers have rights but this is absurd. When the service my sister paid for, what they claimed to be was untrue, they were misleading in terms of price, service and goods. half of the pictures are not even in focus, this is a photographer who is meant to be "professional".

Lirin

Was your sister provided with written T&C's before the wedding?

Reason I'm asking is- any decent photographer will, and should provide T&C's, as giving up the negs/ digital files is not usually included in most wedding packages. The can sell/give the rights for printing.

The only comeback I could think of is see if he is registered to a photographic body, and make a formal complaint to them.... Or maybe small claims?

Taking only one shot of each pose isn't terribly professional

Equaliser123

Yes they can charge extra for the 'negatives' unless it was expressly included in the original terms.

Lirin

You may have legal recourse if you believe the photos were not acceptable, or inappropriate.

There was a recent court case-http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Bride-And-Gloom-Couple-Receive-Woefully-Inadequate-Wedding-Photos/Article/200910115400512

I'd sincerely hope your sisters was a little better than this- the guy who shot this one can't be called a photographer in any sense.

Cloud0

Thanks Lirin. No, there were no written terms and conditions, and she didn't sign anything so there are no contractual agreements. Their argument is that we had agreed that they will have the rights to the negatives over the phone but this was not even discussed. We are not even sure if he is registered or not but he claims to be professional and a member of the Masters Photographers Association.

Lirin

If he's claiming to be registered with MPA, contact them. It won't sadly help your sister, but they take a dim view of messing around while acreddited under their name, and may drop his membership.

Usually what happens is- first meeting, T&C's handed out, and method of working drawn up- where venue is, who's who (including finding out if any family members are absent or have passed away), what styke and type of photos are required, then a package chosen or created with all the requirements.

I always advise to check their other work, see exapmles, but bear in mind you're seeing only their best work. Always get T&C's, and go on personal recommendation if you can. Find out what's included, and get it in writing.

If they are terrible, they may agree to give up printing rights at least if you kick up a fuss, which would allow another photographer to al least attempt re-editing- god knows, I've fixed a few events for others in the past!

Even without contractural docs, the copyright/ownership still rests with the photographer.

However, taking to small claims may at least reclaim part of the money, allowing maybe for a 'Rock the Frock' shoot, or shots in a suitable location- they won't be the day, but could go someway to giving something.

Equaliser123

What is the main concern here? Is it the DVD of digital files or the quality of the photos you do have?

Cloud0

I had a look on the TheMPA website and it seems that he is not a member of what he claims to be. Although I will call up tomorrow to verify this. Once again thanks for the help. I had a look at the court case on sky news and I have to say that his pictures are better than that photographer as some pictures are actually clear. But my brother in law's friend also took pictures that day with a Digital SLR. She's not a professional, she's an amateur and her pictures are alot better than his. But because he pushed everyone around and demanded for her to stop taking pictures because it affects his, she stopped.

The problem here was that family members recommended him, not that they knew or have seen his work it was more based on because they have heard he has been a photographer and videographer for more than 10 years so he must be good. We contacted a couple of days prior to the wedding and when he showed up, he didn't bring any formal documentation and because it was so hectic that day, nothing else was discussed. On the sample DVD there are several pictures of the bride and groom in a car and the car is in focus whilst they are not. There are even some pictures where he had sharpened it with an editing tool. I think I might be able to kick up a fuss with them, hopefully it will work.

The main concern here is not to get scammed again and gaining the negatives back.

KimYeovil

If the pictures are so bad why do you want the negatives? Saying that £180 is VERY cheap for negatives - if you want them pay up.

Lirin

As I've said to OP, neg rights aren't usually included.

However, if he talks to them and can obtain the original negs/ files, then permission may be given to another photographer to 'fix' the images. I've done a few before, and where I could see a ruined pic of the bride getting out of the car- thumb in way, van passing etc, it's possible a passable if not great pic can be created- a closeup of bride's face for example.
Not what they paid for- but something at least.

maninthestreet

If the photographer used a digital camera, there won't be any 'negatives'.