Help please noisy upstairs neighbours running up and down on wooden floors

daisydays

I'm not sure if any solicitors on here would know the answer to this or if someone else would.

My neighbour 2 doors down owns a ground floor conversion flat in a large house which has been converted into 4 flats. She is a widow and very timid, doesn't like to cause a scene. Cut to the chase, the owner of the flat above her rents it out to tenants and he basically is a prig. Nobody likes him, he is arrogant, unhelpful and deliberately awkward. He recently had new tenants take up the rental of the flat and they stamp around all day long . The flooring is wood, may be laminate and there is no insulation either. He does have cheap thin carpet in the bedroom but it doesn't help the sound levels.

She said the tenants are a nice young couple and she has spoken to them but they never do anything about it. They say they'll get a carpet but as yet haven't. I've listened to the sound and it would take much more than just carpet to help with the sound. You can also hear them talking and the child running up and down the hallway. My neighbour even offered the renants a carpet as the sound is casuing her such anxiety but they declined it.

It's the landlord who is being difficult, he doesn't care that the outside is all scruffy and the garden unkempt, as long as he gets his rent. When my neighbour said she'd pay for the carpet and insulation himself he told her he wouldn't have it done as it would ruin his floor and had the nerve to tell her she shouldn't have bought a ground floor flat!

Can she take him to court? I suggested she said that to him but she'd rather do it amicably, and he's the type who wouldn't budge anyway. He'd tell her to take him to court.

Any ideas of the lagalities?

bigbigmamamoo

no idea on the legalities, but I live in a ground floor flat with people upstairs. They are lovely people and we get on well. A young couple with a little boy. A few years ago, before I moved in they had a problem with a leak in their bathroom which is above mine and their floor and my ceiling had to be replaced. Noise from their bathroom travels much more from their bathroom than anywhere else, and it is not just that the bathroom is tiled. Their kitchen is above my bedroom and is also tiled but far less noise travels from there. So the conclusion we came to was that however the floor/ceiling was replaced it was done differently than the original build, so it might, just might be possible for your friend to have something done to her ceiling to remedy the problem

BitterAndTwisted

Poor conversions and wooden/laminate flooring are the work of the Devil!

There's nothing your neighbour can do legally, I'm afraid. Appealing to the neighbours' better nature is the only possible route I can see. If the LL won't lay carpet there's nothing in this world which can compel him to.

neas

Dont get a ground floor flat, or any flat with someone living aboth you... unless you can put up with some noise... i've lived in 4-5 flats, most were above other people and the last was in the middle..... and let me tell you.... over a span of 5-10 years you WILL have someone doing one or most of the following:

1. Put washing machine on at hours not suitable for you (12am+ or 5am etc)
2. Installing a new Sub-Woofer and playing with it... at 3-4 hours a night
3. Arguing fightning and screaming
4. Slamming doors
5. Running, jumping slamming.


COupled with the other issues of sharing a flat, who puts bins out etc... its a compromise not a final solution.

botchjob

I'm not a lawyer but I believe such noise falls under a leaseholders standard right to "quiet enjoyment" and there are things that your neighbour can do about it. She will have to get formal about it though but if she's not planning on selling any time soon then there's no reason not to begin formalities and put it all in writing.

There's a previous thread on it here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/112051

mrcol1000

To be fair I live in a semi-detached house and get woken up at the middle of the night by their baby crying. This is the only noise we ever hear from them though. Never hear their TV or anything else. So its not just flats.
As for the noise there isn't much you can do about it. Its classed as lifestyle noise. You could maybe look into taking private action if you think their actions are causing you problems but it would be hard to prove and costly. You wouldn't be able to have the local council do it on your behalf.

poppysarah

Is there anything within the lease details about flooring?

RedTomato

Who owns the freehold and what does the lease say? Good leases on conversions usually say that flats must be carpeted. She needs to get in touch with the freeholders and find out if there's something on the lease that can be enforced.

Ulfar

It should be law that people in flats with someone below them cannot have laminate or wooden flooring. It should also be made illegal for people to wear shoes inside in flats, I know this is extreme but feet and socks make much less noise unless you are an elephant.

There are measures that can be put in place to help, laminate should be laid with an underlay that blocks sound. The problem with this is it can be expensive and requires the landlord to implement, so probably a no go for your friend.

There are things your friend can do but she will loose some height to the room, not a problem in old properties. Again this can be expensive. It can also put off buyers.

Henry_Hoover_2

Ulfar wrote: »

It should be law that people in flats with someone below them cannot have laminate or wooden flooring. It should also be made illegal for people to wear shoes inside in flats, I know this is extreme but feet and socks make much less noise unless you are an elephant.

There are measures that can be put in place to help, laminate should be laid with an underlay that blocks sound. The problem with this is it can be expensive and requires the landlord to implement, so probably a no go for your friend.

There are things your friend can do but she will loose some height to the room, not a problem in old properties. Again this can be expensive. It can also put off buyers.

It depends on the type of material between flats though. I live in a second floor apartment, which is a conversion of an 1800s lace factory. and the material between floors is extremely thick. Both myself and the person living above me has laminate. I can't hear them walking around, and my downstairs neighbour can't hear us.

It is permitted in the lease, which is why I had it laid. (Although I prefer carpet, we had a moth problem and I have OCD, so although it would have been logical to just eradicate the moths and/or just replace the carpet, I didn't want any carpet AT ALL!).

New builds are different though. A friend of mine lives in a new build block of apartments, with paper thin walls and floors. They can hear a lot of noise from their neighbours.

olly300

It's not up to the tenants to sort the flooring out it's up to the landlord.

The ways the issue can be sorted are:
1. Get the lease out and read it looking for it to say either:
a. what flooring is allowed, OR
b. that there is a quiet enjoyment clause, OR
c. that you must not cause a nuisance to your neighbours clause

2. Then you can write a letter to the freeholder complaining. The freeholder should remind the other leaseholder (landlord) of their obligations, and threaten them with legal action if the issue isn't resolved.

3. Then if they don't do anything (they can take a couple of months to act) send a letter to your local environmental health department. The environmental health will at a minimum send a letter out informing the other party there has been a noise complaint and warn them of the law.

With both 2 and 3 the complainant should make a diary of the noise disturbance i.e. say what days and times the noise occurs for a minimum of a week (the longer the better) with a description of the noise. That way no-one can argue it comes from outside the building or a different flat.

The letters should also be sent recorded delivery.

4. Finally if none of that works, and it can take 6 months for anything to happen i.e. the tenants get evicted and carpet installed, you have to pay for a letter from a solicitor who specialises in noise disturbances who will try to broker a compromise. Again with the threat of legal action as a last resort. However that is a final resort as it cost money. Normally something is sorted out by then because once a solicitor is involved the other party realises they may end up in court, which will cost them money.