Called in for disciplinary

Savvy_Sue

loopy_lass wrote: »

my other bit of advice although it is a little late in this case is to join a union.

I agree.

One other question to raise at the disciplinary could be whether the leave request was unreasonably refused, or whether other people's leave requests are granted in similar circumstances. But that's a tricky one, because you won't always know whether the circumstances are similar or not. And saying "But you let Fred take a day off two weeks ago" just sounds childish.

Although if a particular manager does seem to be acting in an unfair manner, you might be able to use that at a disciplinary if someone senior to them is present.

It's not a strong strategy ... I hope the interview went well, because you are going to have problems taking more time off, I suspect!

SarEl

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I agree.

One other question to raise at the disciplinary could be whether the leave request was unreasonably refused, or whether other people's leave requests are granted in similar circumstances. But that's a tricky one, because you won't always know whether the circumstances are similar or not. And saying "But you let Fred take a day off two weeks ago" just sounds childish.

Although if a particular manager does seem to be acting in an unfair manner, you might be able to use that at a disciplinary if someone senior to them is present.

It's not a strong strategy ... I hope the interview went well, because you are going to have problems taking more time off, I suspect!

I don't often disagree with Savvy Sue, but I am afraid that on this one I am going to have to. Whilst I would generally advise telling the truth at disciplinaries, I am also going to disagree with myself on that advice!

My advice would be to brazen it out and insist that you did have a bad back, and that this was all just a horrible coincidence. The reason being very simple - if you go on the attack and/or admit the truth (and questioning the right of the manager to refuse the time off is tantamount to admitting you did thorw a sickie, since if you were genuinely ill it is neither here not there that the lave request was refused, is it?), then I genuinely fear that the employer will sack you and they will have very legitimate reason to do so. After all, you aren't just admitting to throwing a sickie and being absent without good reason. You are also admitting to lying about it. And that alone is sufficient grounds to dismiss.

In your shoes I would stick to my story come hell or high water and hope that they either decide they can't prove it or decide that their "reasonable belief" that you did it is not sufficeint to justify more than a warning. But you need to be conscious of the fact that they will probably be questioing every justified sickness you take for a very long time now, and they may also be watching other things too. Employers do not like being made fools of, and they are not stupid. If you felt the refusal was unfair you should have appealed it in the proper way, not taken matters into your own hands and taken the day off anyway. In doing so you have risked your job, and you cannot afford to put a foot wrong again. Assuming, I regret to say, that you get the chance to.

___________________

Ps - I do agree about joining a union though

laurz121

Putting myself in the employers position the first thing I would say in this disciplinary is "So your back was so bad you were unable to come into work. Were you in bed all day?" when the OP says 'yes' (which I assume he will as saying 'no, I was up and about all day' will only lead them to doubt his story even more and even question why he couldnt come and sit at a desk) I would then say 'and your wife was away on business, so I imagine that made looking after your children quite tough with you bed bound'. If the answer to that was also 'yes' then the OP would be sacked.

So OP, if I were you i'd get your thinking cap on and think of some way to explain where the kids were and how much mobility you had then as others have said I'd stick to my story otherwise you might as well just hand your notice in.

Its also worth pointing out that if you're successful with this job application your current employer will probably put two and two together and may contact your potential new employer and ask when the interview was and take action based on that. I'm not sure if this is legal or not but it could well be.

Savvy_Sue

SarEl wrote: »

If you felt the refusal was unfair you should have appealed it in the proper way, not taken matters into your own hands and taken the day off anyway. In doing so you have risked your job, and you cannot afford to put a foot wrong again. Assuming, I regret to say, that you get the chance to.

Now that is VERY true! In fact I would have phoned the new employer and asked if there was any chance of re-scheduling to outside your normal working hours, as a recruiter I'd far rather an applicant wasn't lying about why they weren't at work when they were coming to interview!

SarEl

laurz121 wrote: »

Its also worth pointing out that if you're successful with this job application your current employer will probably put two and two together and may contact your potential new employer and ask when the interview was and take action based on that. I'm not sure if this is legal or not but it could well be.

Yes it is legal. It's called "investigating". Of course, what wouldn't be legal would be phoning the potential employer back and saying "thanks for that, we just sacked him for lying about sick leave" - although the bit up to "sacked him" would be ok . Goodbye two jobs People do the most amazingly daft things at times, but a double lie is amongst the daftest. Because now he has to get away with it twice!

teabelly

If you need time off for an interview then it is better to say you have an appointment you can't change and it is of a 'personal' nature so you will not be disclosing what for. A week's notice for a day off is more than adequate so I think your employer is being unreasonable. But taking off a day sick anyway is the best way to drop yourself in it unfortunately.

Do you think they already know you have applied for another job?

chuckley

why didnt u just ask for half day stating it was a doctors/dentist appointment?!

its an easy white lie that they cant trace back.

gravitytolls

loopy_lass wrote: »

hi FWIW i beleived that employers only have to give you time off for interviews if you had been made redundant. I could be wrong. But my advice is, they cant prove you were not ill, a bit more forward planning would have been good... i.e. having maybe a couple more days off with it.. but then you run the risk of the "sickness" affecting your suitability for the new job.

You could stand your ground and say you had this "bad back" which suddenly got better the next day was actually something a little more personal and you were embarrassed to say.. possibly trotty tummy and ask for forgiveness.

my other bit of advice although it is a little late in this case is to join a union.

hth loops

You're right of course, my apologies.

OP, suppose you were to be considered for the job you applied for? What if the prospective employer called for a reference..... I wonder if your current employer would ask when the interview was and inform them of your underhand attitude?

It could backfire on you.

Nine_Lives

Am interested in the outcome of this as this happens a lot at our place.


It may not have worked out any better, but i would've considered going sick for a few days before this and a day after it to make it less of a coincidence.

Also, AFAIK, just because you give them a weeks notice for a day off, doesn't mean they HAVE to accept it. From my experience, holidays are to be taken at the companys say-so. Usually they aren't arsey, but sometimes they are.

Savvy_Sue

chuckley wrote: »

why didnt u just ask for half day stating it was a doctors/dentist appointment?!

its an easy white lie that they cant trace back.

Actually they can: some employers insist on evidence like an appointment card if they don't believe you! And they can still refuse permission to take the time off, even if it is for a medical appointment! That may not be 'reasonable', but it does happen.