Just to be abso sure...

MsAnderson

I am reading all the posts here, but I just need one thing cleared up. I seem to remember being told not to pay the charge/fee if the signs in the car park were small, or hidden, or too wee writing to read. I can't see that confirmed on this forum, so does it mean that even if the signs say in huge lettering and are everywhere, you can still overstay the limit and not be invoiced. Sorry if this is posted elsewhere but I couldn't see it.

PS I usually stick within the timescales, but if I even go over, it'll be good to know the situation with the signs in the carparks.

Many thanks, you are a really sharp set of bods.

peter_the_piper

It depends on who runs the car park. If its a private Co then just ignore. If its a council one then it could be worth a deeper look, just do NOT ignore it.

MsAnderson

Yes, I realise that if it is a Council car park, then I would pay the fine. However, most of the car parks around shopping centres, Tesco's, etc around here are private.

Thanks for the confirmation. Happy motoring..!

peter_the_piper

As you did not say who ran it I thought it best to check. Happy ignoring.

MsAnderson

I must have too much time on my hands today, but I got to wondering why Tesco, Asda, et all bother putting these firms onto the car park monitoring if what they do is illegal?

Or, is it perfectly legal, and the advice here is merely moneysaving in that the car parking people are unlikely to chase you for payment - thus giving you parking for free when it's not actually/technically free.

Maybe I am thinking too much into this?!! If you receive a service or goods, i.e. electricity, gas - you are obligued to pay for that because you have received the goods. Isn't it the case with parking? You have used their service and they are allowed to charge.

Does the parking in places where there is a barrier the same. Assuming you could get in and out without the ticket stub thing.

Told you - too much time today..

taffy056

Probably the reason behind the ppc's being in supermarkets car parks is cost, the companies believe that it sorts out the problem with parking, the only problem is that these scammers harass customers with spurious tickets that are not real, they do more damage to a shop's reputation than probably anything else.

Now these large companies know its a scam, and they know these companies often act illegally, but they do not care as its not them doing so, also as they often get a cut out of the ticket paid, they are not going to let a chance to make money slip.

MsAnderson

So is there anything legal in what the car park monitors do? It can't all be fluff otherwise the supermarkets wouldn't touch it, would they?

peter_the_piper

They rely on most drivers always paying up for what they think is an official ticket. Once people realise that the ""fine""is just a begging letter they happily ignore them.

Sir_Roger_deLodger

MsAnderson wrote: »

So is there anything legal in what the car park monitors do? It can't all be fluff otherwise the supermarkets wouldn't touch it, would they?

Of course they would. They are on a percentage.

Coupon-mad

MsAnderson wrote: »

I must have too much time on my hands today, but I got to wondering why Tesco, Asda, et all bother putting these firms onto the car park monitoring if what they do is illegal?

Issuing a ticket (invoice) isn't illegal. I could invoice you now for my services in answering your post, it wouldn't be illegal to issue it (you wouldn't have to pay it though!).

Illegal isn't the same as unenforceable. These tickets are generally not the former but are the latter. This is because of soooo many things they do wrong that would scupper any chances they might think they have of convincing any judge of a fair contract existing for such a spurious, made-up amount of money.

MsAnderson wrote: »

Or, is it perfectly legal, and the advice here is merely moneysaving in that the car parking people are unlikely to chase you for payment - thus giving you parking for free when it's not actually/technically free.

They don't 'give' (offer) the parking in a free car park, the retailer or landowner does. The PPC just 'police' the area, having convinced said retailer that it's a good idea. Usually because said PPC tells said retailer they'll solve their parking problems for free, or even give the retailer or their preferred charity a small slice of the pie (income from the sad percentage of victims who pay up).

MsAnderson wrote: »

Maybe I am thinking too much into this?!! If you receive a service or goods, i.e. electricity, gas - you are obliged to pay for that because you have received the goods. Isn't it the case with parking? You have used their service and they are allowed to charge.

The PPC isn't providing you with any service, they neither own the car park nor do they even maintain it. So you haven't used their service. If they had such an agreement with the retailer/landowner they could introduce a nominal charge for parking, and some do. But that would have to be very reasonable to be competitive enough not to lose business for the retailer by putting people off even parking there & shopping.

The bogus PCNs they issue for alleged misdemeanours clearly don't fall within any 'nominal charge for parking' bracket - and of course judges have found such extortionate tickets to be an unlawful penalty - such as in the Hetherington Jakeman case.

MsAnderson wrote: »

Does the parking in places where there is a barrier the same. Assuming you could get in and out without the ticket stub thing.

Yes in theory, all private car parks are the same (except for in Scotland where some disabled bays are enforced by the Council now, I believe). I would be wary of a barrier car park except when you know they often leave the barrier up - I know of a Supermarket like that near me and park there sometimes. I feel no guilt as I usually buy something at the Supermarket while I am there (unplanned, passing trade like mine is a good thing of course for the retailer if they would just realise it).

IMHO Supermarkets are daft to drive trade away by imposing short stay times like 1 to 2 hours maximum when they have a cafe on site, or several retailers in one car park! Customers feel obliged to leave early and by definition, spend less money in the stores. It's obviously a stupid idea to drive people away but I believe the retailers just jump at the chance to get someone else to deal with their perceived 'parking problem' for free.

Maybe the 'parking problem' is a symptom of their own success in attracting customers, i.e. they are just busy? In which case the solution is to dump the bully-boy PPC and simply provide more spaces, make better use of waste ground/delivery access roads etc. by converting them to bays - and actually encourage customers to come in and spend for a few hours at a time. Let the customers browse and spend more! Then just a have a barrier and employee at the exit where the driver has to show a store receipt or pay maybe a fiver for parking.