Deposit Return after 2 years

iamstacie

Hi,



This is quite a long story, but hopefully somone will be able to assist me here. Back in June 2008 I moved into a property, paid approx £1100 deposit and paid £650 rent by DD every month. I was aware the landlord had had problems with the previous tenant not paying bills, but didnt think it would have any bearing on me and my tenancy. In August 2008 we started getting lettings from a solicitors acting on behalf of the mortgage company saying we had to pay rent directly to them as the landlord hadnt been paying the mortgage. Then for a month he did, so action stopped, then late September the solictors took it over again and asked us to pay them directly, but that they'd be looking to put the house on the market so we had to move out before the end of our 6 month tenancy. With the solictors agreement we moved out at 5 months, November 2008, into the property I'm in now.



The landlord was often not in the country (working abroad), so all contact was by email. When we attempted to get out deposit back, we found the TDS documentation we'd been provided early on in the tenancy was incorrect. Originally the letting agents protected the deposit under their name with the scheme they use. Between us providing the deposit and us recieving the document, the landlord decided he was going to manage the property himself and kept the deposit. We weren't provided with a new document, but didnt know anything about the change at this point so didnt know to ask.



When we vacated, we called and emailed the landlord a number of times asking for our deposit back, we'd left the property in immaculate condition, wear & tear minimal given we'd only been there 5 months. All calls were not returned and no response to emails where provided. We spent weeks trying to find out who had our deposit, and when we did, we were told we were outside the time limit for their normal channels and we weren't given much assistance with what we could do to get out deposit returned.



Last year I ended up being really quite ill, and between hospital, full time work & full time study, I just could not face the stress of trying to chase this guy for my money. This year I've just tried my best to forget it, still working, still studying, and now with a baby on the way I didn't need the extra stress more than I needed the money.



Now we're moving out, and purely out of curiosity I looked at the agents website to find out how much my house is up for, and saw my last house up again, for less than what I was renting it for. I rang the agents this morning as if it was a different landlord I would be interested in moving back. It isn't. Its the same guy who I consider to have stolen my deposit, and kept at least 3 months of my rent payments without passing it on to the lenders.



Quite frankly, I'm furious. I had pretty much given up on it, but knowing he has still got that house and is still able to collect deposits and rent money really upsets me. I want to know what I can do to get this money back. I was considering emailing him something along the lines of "Hope you are well. I see you are in a better financial posistion now than you were two years ago since you've managed to retain ownership of the property that was to be repossessed in November 2008? With this in mind, I trust you are now able to return the £1100 deposit paid to you in June 2008, along with the interest you have earnt? Please respond within 14 days or I will have no option but to start small claims court proceedings." Then send a recorded letter to the address I have for him, then take it to SCC.



Is there another (better?) way to do this, or do I have to give it up as a lost cause?



Thanks in advance
Stacie

BitterAndTwisted

DO NOT email, just write this shyster a letter entitled "Letter Before Action" asking for the return of your deposit in full within 14 days or you'll issue a summons in the Small Claims Court. If you do issue the summons you could argue that you are entitled to 3x the deposit as a penalty for not lodging it in an approved scheme. You could mention that you are minded to do this in your letter.

This is all assuming that the landlord would have no possibility of claiming that there was damage to the property or its contents when you vacated. Were inventories done?

iamstacie

Thanks for your response. I wouldn't be able to claim 3x deposit, as he did lodge it with a deposit scheme, but he never advised me or the letting agents what the details were. We had details for the one we believed it was, it was only when following it up with them after the 2 weeks were up we found he had changed it to a different one. It then took a few more weeks to locate the right scheme and prove our identities to them - by which time we we were outside the time limits they set for normal channels of assistance, and the help we got from them was very limited.

An inventory was done when we moved in, which I signed, but nothing was done on move out. The landlord was out of the country, and the lenders solicitors instructed us to provide the keys to a different estate agent to the ones that handled the letting. As far as I'm aware, that was the only set of keys - so no-one would have been able to do an inventory.

N79

iamstacie wrote: »

Thanks for your response. I wouldn't be able to claim 3x deposit, as he did lodge it with a deposit scheme, but he never advised me or the letting agents what the details were. We had details for the one we believed it was, it was only when following it up with them after the 2 weeks were up we found he had changed it to a different one. It then took a few more weeks to locate the right scheme and prove our identities to them - by which time we we were outside the time limits they set for normal channels of assistance, and the help we got from them was very limited.

Does the scheme still hold the deposit? If there was no agreement from you then they should not have returned it to the LL without a court order. They may still have it - have you checked? If not, get in writing what the scheme has done with the deposit.

I agree that small claims is the way to go. You can submit your claim online. How reliable is the address for him? I ask because getting a judgment is the easy bit. Without a good address you may struggle to enforce it. Although if they still own the property then you can always go down the charging order route......

iamstacie

Its my understanding of the type of scheme he used, that they never held the deposit - just some sort of insurance scheme? I'll give them a call anyway and see if they have any advise. Thanks

N79

Indeed, however, if the deposit was protected with them they could still be liable for the protection - you legally have 6 years to dispute deposit deductions (eg mydeposits only added a 3 months window for claims in April this year, the TDS claim window is allegedly only 20 days to lodge a dispute though.)

iamstacie

I've done a bit more digging into this tonight, the house he owned (not the rental property) was sold in September 2008. As far as I know, there is no way for me to find out if he owns another house. Either way, it won't be his primary property as he has appears to have made a full time move to the United States where he's very high up at a very large company - he was quite high up 2 years ago, but seems he's had another promotion. Does it change anything as he doesn't have a permanent UK address?

tomitma

The estate agents must have his address, cant you ask them for it?

iamstacie

*bump* I would have thought there's some sort of data protection act stopping the estate agents just giving out this guys address to anyone who asks.

I have followed up on this though, and would appreciate advise on next steps (apologies for length/if you've already seen this on LLZ)


Following advice received about the above situation, I contacted mydeposits, and asked if I could restart the arbitration process through them, which unfortunately said no to. Their advice was as above, to follow it up through the courts.

Earlier today we emailed the landlord, including only the facts ie address in question, dates, total deposit value, and a request for cleared funds within 14 days to our bank account. We advised that if funds not received within 14 days we'd be seeking to start proceedings through the courts process and would be looking to include interest from the date it should have been returned. The tone of our email was professional, polite and to the point. I'll copy it in if its needed.

The LL replied within an hour, with the following response...

"Nice to know that you are still alive. You left without giving me prior notice, the place in a mess and I had to replace the carpets because of your dogs and you gave me no forwarding address. How dare you now come and say you need your deposit."

That's verbatim, not edited for effect. The irony of his first sentence it that it was he who disappeared and refused to answer any of our emails, emails which were sent to the same address he replied from today.

Once I'd calmed down a little, we drafted and sent the below (identifiable details removed). Along with the email, we sent two attachment - these being the two original emails sent in November 2008, one advising we were due to move, could he confirm he was aware of the mortgage company actions, and how would he like to handle return of deposit, second to say we'd moved, and could he now release deposit.


"Dear Mr Landlord,

Thank you for your prompt reply, however we feel it important to note that we do not agree with the content of your email, which we refute in detail in below.



1. "You left without giving me prior notice"



Firstly it was not our choice to leave the property, we left the property at the request of solicitors acting on behalf of your mortgage company. However please find attached evidence of our advising you of our intention to leave the property. At this time, due to your dispute with [mortgage lenders], you were legally no longer our landlord and as such we were under no obligation to advise you of our leaving date but did so out of courtesy.



2. "the place in a mess and I had to replace the carpets because of your dogs"



The property was left clean and tidy and free of all rubbish, with only the dining set and fridge freezer you provided still in the property. Unfortunately no check out inspection was completed, as although the check in report was actioned by [letting agents], on the instruction of the solicitors acting on behalf [mortgage company], the keys were handed to [estate agents]. However, as at this time we had no reason to believe there would be any issues with regards to the deposit, we spent many hours cleaning the property, including using a carpet cleaner on all carpets.



Further to this, the photographs recently displayed on the [new letting agents] website clearly show the property to have the same carpet in September 2010 as was in the property when we vacated in November 2008.



Any deductions to the deposit held have to be agreed by both parties and disputes resolved through official channels. Despite your claim to have had no address for us you did have several lines of communication open. You were aware of both of our email addresses, which you had responded to previously. You had our mobile phone numbers, which previous correspondence had been carried out though. You could have spoken to [original lettings agents] who during this time emailed, and texted you on our behalf to no reply. You could have contacted the solicitors dealing with the case on behalf of [mortgage company].



You chose to make deductions without agreement which to us were highly unnecessary. Before making any deductions to a deposit, the landlord must provide evidence that repairs are required, which would require both a check in and check out report. Following evidence of damage beyond normal 'wear and tear', the landlord then has to provide to the tenant with three separate quotations for the work to be carried out. Despite having multiple channels of communication open to you in order to resolve this, you chose to retain the deposit without due cause, and with no notification.



3. "you gave me no forwarding address"



We believe we have covered the point regarding lack of forwarding address, but for clarity, please allow me to reiterate. Firstly, you could have chosen to engage myself or [ms tenant] via our email addresses, both of which you have had and had used for successful communications throughout the early months of our tenancy. Secondly, during our email correspondence, [ms tenant] had provided you with both of our mobile numbers, which you acknowledged at the time, and both of which are still numbers we use to this day. Thirdly, [original letting agents] - who let the property initially - were provided with our forwarding address. Finally, [mortgage companies solictors] on behalf of [mortgage company] had our forwarding address, and as we had provided you with their details, this is yet another correspondence option open to you which you chose not to take.



We trust that this email has refreshed your memory of the events surrounding our rental of the property, and you now understand you are incorrect in withholding our deposit in this manner. We look forward to receiving the £1150 to the bank account quoted previously within the next 14 days.



Kind Regards,

Mr & Ms Tenant"

As yet, we haven't received a response - I presume after his ill considered initial email and our reply clearly disputing every aspect of his initial email, he's taking some time out to consider how to respond? Presuming his response is along similar lines to the first, what would be our next step? I'm starting to wonder if we need professional advise, though I'm 5 months pregnant and can't afford legal expenses so I'd like to do it myself, or at least as much as possible anyway.

I'd really appreciate any advise you could offer.

Many thanks,
Stacie

nb, we had 1 dog - which was agreed and written into the tenancy agreement.

iamstacie

Since writing that, we have had a response overnight, and its much the same as the first...

"You can do whatever you want the truth remains. I have had several tenants since you left and I changed the carpet, painted the house and cleaned your mess and you did not give me notice as per contract. If someone chased you out then you should sue those\people not me. I did not"

I hope from my earlier messages you can understand the position we're in, and can see that given the rather complicated situation at the time - the actions we took (ie leaving the property at the request of the deed holders) were correct and my complaint against this man still stands?

Do I now ask him for proof of damage, knowing absolutely that he can't provide any? Should I ask for his address for sending papers - though if he gives an american one, where does this leave me with the court process?

Thanks,
Stacie

N79

iamstacie wrote: »

Since writing that, we have had a response overnight, and its much the same as the first...

"You can do whatever you want the truth remains. I have had several tenants since you left and I changed the carpet, painted the house and cleaned your mess and you did not give me notice as per contract. If someone chased you out then you should sue those\people not me. I did not"

I hope from my earlier messages you can understand the position we're in, and can see that given the rather complicated situation at the time - the actions we took (ie leaving the property at the request of the deed holders) were correct and my complaint against this man still stands?

Do I now ask him for proof of damage, knowing absolutely that he can't provide any? Should I ask for his address for sending papers - though if he gives an american one, where does this leave me with the court process?

Thanks,
Stacie

Forget corresponding with this nutter. Just file court form N1 after the 14 day deadline. If you need help with filling in any of the details then ask away. Make sure you request that the case is assigned to the small claims track. Don't both including all the flannel, just state that you paid the deposit on date X, that you fulfilled all your obligations under the tenancy and it has not been returned. Your LL will have to prove any deductions.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=338